Fluoride coming to Hackettstown

"N.J. Assembly panel passes bill to add fluoride to public water supply"

"Water companies in New Jersey would be required to add fluoride to the water supply under a bill approved Monday by an Assembly panel at the urging of dentists and public health professionals — despite objections from environmentalists and utility officials."

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/01/nj_assembly_panel_passes_bill.html


Woohooo!

Fluoride Deception - if you have any interest in your health or your kids health you may want to watch the video ; )

Peace


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3y8uwtxrHo&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hW0_UMtsb4&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hW0_UMtsb4&feature=relmfu

Me4 ✉
May '12

Brush 2-3 times a day and don't use Meth... that's all it takes folks.

iJay ✉
May '12

All major brand toothpaste has fluoride. Just don't buy from the dollar-crap stores as it could be fake shi! from China, this includes toothbrushes as well.

iJay ✉
May '12

Don't give it to your pets to drink either

4paws ✉
May '12

this is wrong, the state legislature is out of control again, i hope the governor vetoes this,

one more reason to get out of this state asap.

BrotherDog ✉
May '12

and they wonder why so many of our children are getting sick, yupp just keep adding all those chemicals to our food and drink, thanks government

4paws ✉
May '12

"The chemicals used to fluoridate water are not pharmaceutical grade. Instead, they largely come from the wet scrubbing systems of the phosphate fertilizer industry. These chemicals (90% of which are sodium fluorosilicate and fluorosilicic acid), are classified hazardous wastes contaminated with various impurities."

Me4 ✉
May '12

I have someone allergic to Flouride! I buy toothpaste without it now. What to do about bathing etc, when this all passes!

chattermm ✉
May '12

"Of all the gin joints, in all the towns of all the world - she walks into mine"...

GC ✉
May '12

Assembly bill 1811 has not been approved. Senate bill 959 has not been approved. So the governor can't sign anything.

Now you can return to your life...

BLD2
May '12

"Now you can return to your life..."

This is exactly the problem with this country - people not paying attention to what their government is doing or trying to do to them & not speaking up about it. If you say nothing they will figure you don't care & will roll right over you.

Peace

Me4 ✉
May '12

"Assembly bill 1811 has not been approved. Senate bill 959 has not been approved. So the governor can't sign anything. "

ok, so out acton steps then are to write to our assembly and senate members telling them how we feel about these bills.

there is still time to influence the outcome.

defeat both of these bills is a good goal to work towards.

thanks for the info bld.

:)

BrotherDog ✉
May '12

From above: "one more reason to get out of this state asap."

Well, the article OP posted states that "New Jersey is one of the nation’s least fluoridated states, with 1.1 million of its 8.7 million residents living in communities that add the naturally occurring element to the public supply."

So, it's a reason to stay?

jerseydutchman2 ✉
May '12

don't you want me to leave?

BrotherDog ✉
May '12

Or the Reverse Osmosis business

MikeGuida ✉
May '12

I posted already about this, but Mike @ www.highdefwater.com in town will get you what you need to keep fluoride out of your water. Among other nasty things that may be in there…

JiveDig ✉
May '12

Applause to Bruce Smith, HMUA.
Nice job!

Me4 ✉
May '12

Gosh, I realize I am just wrong-headed but it seems that $1 per year costs less than toothpaste to protect your teeth in a safe fashion. I always feel I am on the wrong side of things in good ole Hackettstown but this one seems to be an innocuous no-cost, no harm, no foul, no brainer solution. It's been used since the 1940's, it's still here and if you are afraid of yet again another government intrusion into your lives, ask yourself about the other stuff HMUA already puts in your water without asking you to adjust PH or remove biological toxins that occur normally in nature. Notice how they don't talk about current additives, if any. Can you spell Chlorine? Have they started to irradiate yet?

About 85% of the world's public water is chlorinated. HMUA does not mention what they use to clean the water but it could be:

Chlorine below 5 milligrams per liter (mg/L)*
Bromodichloromethane below 0.06 mg/L
Bromoform below 0.10 mg/L
Chloroform below 0.20 mg/L
Dibromochloromethane below 0.10 mg/L

Wanna guess where this stuff comes from?

It is true that many European countries do not fluoridate. Some believe this is an infringement on personal health choices. A number have ceased fluoridation in recent years usually as a social issue just like some of us want to do. About 5.7% of the world fluoridates. Never thought I would see the HL-off-the-griders choose the EuroSocialist way. Hope you won't start going French in your hygiene next.

Most of the US fluoridates even with 15% of the population on well water. A total of 66% of US citizens currently fluoridate via the US water system. All 50 states fluoridate to some level: 40 states at the 50% population level and 50% of the states at the 75% level or higher. NJ currently fluoridates at the lower end with only 21% of its citizens receiving.

Not too many reports of death and mayhem yet much less arsenic poisoning.

Studied since the 1930's, used since 1940's, inexpensive costs of about $1 per person per year (less than toothpaste), highly effective (more so than toothpaste and even better with toothpaste) and about double the effectiveness of toothpaste, yeah, this is the one we want to do without? Are we still blaming the communists or some vast government action to control our thoughts or reduce our freedoms?

Bruce is right re the chemicals used, however only one of the three he mentioned would be used, not all three, and flourousilicic acid the the major one used. Sure, it's a byproduct of fertilizer production --- so what? Check you cupboards for lots of fertilizer byproducts. Pink slime it's not. Arsenic --- sometimes in some products but usuaully at acceptable levels and Bruce could always select one of the vast majority of suppliers that does not have arsenic in thier product.

As far as chemicals go, chlorine has killed many more folks than this stuff ever has.

So what is HMUA already putting in your water without telling you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation

mistergoogle ✉
May '12

This completely bothers me. So pretty much I'm forced between Fluoride in my tap water or BPA in my bottled water. Awesome!

oceanhaze ✉
May '12

number of fluoride related deaths = zero

relax people

darwin ✉
May '12

I think it is pretty clear that the benes outweigh the dangers including both better health and lower cost. It is also true the parents could handle this themselves via pills and tootpaste, but not just tootpaste alone, although it would be less effective and more expensive. And it is also true, for the fanatics out there, that you can find horror stories and that if misused, it can harm you. Then again, so can a traffic light.

But HUMA's fluoride accusations, even when factual, are pretty much unfounded as a reason not to add fluoride, and HUMA still has yet to tell you what it DOES already put in your water. Wonder what they are hiding?

mistergoogle ✉
May '12

Just a few corrections...

1. Fluoride in water enters the body systemically... which means through ingestion. This is much less effective than topical applications such as toothpaste, mouth rinses, etc. Even the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) acknowledge this. Check the CDC's website if you don't believe me.

2. Almost one half of U.S. teenagers have some form of dental fluorosis. Dental fluorosis only comes from one thing... over-exposure to fluoride. Check the CDC website for this info too.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db53.htm

3. If you believe that adding fluoride to water will only cost $1.00 per person per year, you are very mistaken. Perhaps for a very large, single treatment facility that provides water to millions... but not for smaller systems like Hackettstown. Hackettstown also has multiple wells throughout the town. This would require a treatment system, chemical storage facility, etc. for each and every well location. The construction costs would be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars before even a single drop of water was treated.

4. Bromodichloromethane, dibromochloromethane, tribromomethane (bromoform), and trichloromethane (chloroform) are not added to Hackettstown water, nor any other water system for that matter. These four compounds are Trihalomethanes, which are by-products of the disinfection process when chlorine is used. They are produced when chlorine comes in contact with organic matter, and will show up in trace amounts in any water system that uses chlorine. Trust me on this one... I work as a chemist in a laboratory.

5. Chlorine is added to the Hackettstown water system... it is required by law, actually. Other methods of disinfection do not produce a measurable residual the way chlorine does. If you have a pool, this is the colorimetric test that you use to test the level. It produces a color change that is proportional to the concentration of active clorine (Or free chlorine residual if you prefer) left over after disinfection. Even water systems that use disinfection systems other than chlorine are still required to add chlorine in some form as a secondary process to produce a measurable residual. It's the only way to know for certain that any harmful organisms have been destroyed.

I personally do not want fluoride added to my water, and I disagree with being forced to do so. Aside from all of the statements about the degree of fluoride toxicity, the truth is that many new studies are being developed to show that the chemical isn't without potential health effects. Fluoride is also very aggressive... it loves to bond with anything. This makes fluoridated water much more corrosive. Take a look at the EPA's list of water systems with high lead contamination. Every one of the systems with the highest concentrations of lead use water fluoridation. Washington DC is a perfect example. Thank you very much, but I like my water just the way it is...

Appliance Man ✉
May '12

Oh gosh, here we go again.... Appliance Man:

1. CDC recommends fluoride treatment via fluoridated water and twice brushing with treated toothpaste. The water level has been lowered from 1.2 to .7 mpl's. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5014a1.htm

Many of the CDC's Q&As are here: http://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/fact_sheets/cwf_qa.htm but it is important to note that water treatment provides low-level consistent application on a systemic basic. Key here is low level and consistent. Toothpaste provides a higher level inconsistent dosage. So, if you forgo the water and go only with the toothpaste, make sure you get the right dosage and make real sure your kids are using it right and not swallowing the stuff as kids tend to do. Good luck !!!!

2. Less than 1% have severe and, who knows, they could be toothpaste eaters.

3. Average cost is less than $1 per person in the US. According to the ADA: "costs range from .38 to 3.00 per person. For every $1 invested, $38 in dental costs are saved." Also, toothpaste alternatives cost more than water treatment per person so you are losing money.

4. Yeah, let's trust chemists.....But you are right, HUMA does not add those other elements directly. They are INDIRECTLY added by HUMA when HUMA chlorinates the water and it then comes in contact with organic material. Think about it. Organic materials are naturally present in water. When you add chlorine to remove bacteria, it will run into organic materials so in essence you are adding the other byproduct chemicals as well.

5. Correct.

So, go with out fluoridated water, use toothpaste and other topical or systemic remedies instead. Spend more and do make sure you got that dosage right and that those little devils are spitting not swallowing. Personally, I would go with pills rather than try to force kids to be brushing their teeth more than twice a day.

Here's a good summary: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/23/dental-exam-went-well-thank-fluoride/ Judge for yourself.

mistergoogle ✉
Jun '12

Fluoride is poison.
We have been instructed to only give children "pea-sized" amounts of toothpaste, and MAKE SURE they do not swallow.
All you have to do is research the topic to know how bad fluoride is.

happy girl
Jun '12

Fluoride is part of the Zombie Acopolypse plan

Steve-0 ✉
Jun '12

I hope this doesn't happen ~ :/

happy2bhere ✉
Jun '12

mistergoogle - nope, you shouldn't assume. I do not use fluoride. And you havn't finished your homework yet. Fluoride should not be in drinking water.

happy girl
Jun '12

Yay! My laundry will stop getting those nasty cavities!

Why is it that I could be forced to drink flouride but can't purchase raw milk in this state? Produced properly, raw milk is clean, safe and very healthy! But to buy it I have to go to PA.

hktownie ✉
Jun '12

Sorry HG. Thought you followed your instructions, my bad.

Do you think raw milk is behind PA driving habits? Good thing NJ outlaws it, our roads have enough PA drivers.

mistergoogle ✉
Jun '12

I'm going to show you a graph of data compiled by the World Health Organization of tooth decay in countries that use fluoridated water compared to countries that don't:

http://sdsdw.org/fluoride-facts/world-health-organization-data-tooth-decay-trends/

Now... after looking at the graph, do you see any correlation between using fluoridated water and a decline in tooth decay? The answer is No. Tooth decay has dropped consistently throughout the world with absolutely no correlation to fluoridated water. The consistent drop can be attributed to the introduction of fluoridated toothpaste and better access to routine dental care.

Now, contrary to what is being said, if you do some research, you will see that there are a lot of studies done by very reputable scientists that show that fluoridated water is not all it is cracked up to be. I'm not talking about articles on mind control... or articles on "poisoning the masses"... I'm talking about the scientific studies that show that the systemic ingestion of fluoride is ineffective, and that exposure to very low levels of fluoride chemicals could cause chronic health effects. The fact that there is so much debate on this subject alone, should be proof enough that "mandatory" fluoridation is unethical and should not be forced upon the population.

There is no doubt that fluoride in the appropriate dose will help prevent tooth decay. The problem is that fluoridated water is an ineffective delivery system that can overexpose individuals to its detrimental effects on a regular basis much more than it can be attributed to having any benefits. Fluoride can be found in many beverages, fruits, vegetables, etc. in addition to dental hygiene products. Compound this with the variations in personal intake of drinking water, and you have no way of effectively monitoring the daily dosage of fluoride below the recommended levels with the addition of fluoridated water. And fluoride is very toxic... but anything can be toxic if the dose is high enough.

The main problem with fluoride is not its level of toxicity, but the level of toxicity of its constituent contaminants and the increase in other potential toxins that it reacts with... and it reacts with EVERYTHING. Fluoride contains arsenic. It contains 10 times more arsenic than all other water treatment chemicals combined. It also reacts aggressively with metals in household plumbing and causes them to leach into the water. If you go onto the EPA website and look at the list of US water systems that have extremely high levels of lead (say 4 to 5 times the action level of 15 parts per billion), you will find one thing in common with all of them... they all fluoridate their water. So the argument is not necessarily how toxic the actual fluoride is, it is how toxic are the substances that it adds or reacts with in addition to it. And when fluoride was tested for levels of constituent toxins, it was tested when the maximum contaminant level of arsenic was 50 parts per billion. The maximum contaminant level for arsenic in NJ has since been lowered to 5 parts per billion. Here is an interesting article from the American Water Works Association that supports this:

http://www.keepers-of-the-well.org/product_pdfs/Opflow.pdf


And I'm sorry... "every $1 invested in fluoride saves $38 in dental costs"? This is a very misleading statement issued by the ADA with absolutely zero data to support it other than chemical costs alone. Add in the costs of construction, safety programs (because oh boy, fluoride chemicals in raw form are extremely toxic and hazardous), electrical costs, maintenance costs, etc., and the costs are much, much higher. And 99% of all treated water is not used for consumption... so it literally goes "down the drain". Using this sort of comparison is like saying that the cost of homeownership is based on mortgage costs alone... not adding property taxes, utility bills, maintenance, etc. into the equation.

And do we need another chemical added to our water when it isn't necessary? Think about this... are there any potential health effects from NOT adding fluoride to drinking water? No, there are not. Are there any potential health effects from NOT adding chlorine to your drinking water? Let's see... here's another pretty graph. The difference is that this one DOES have a direct correlation between water treatment and waterborne disease:

http://www.waterandhealth.org/drinkingwater/groundwater.html

And drinking water with chlorine added to it doesn't kill people. Chemical accidents or exposure to extremely high concentrations of elemental chlorine gas do. There is a big difference, and it is unfair to attribute chemical exposure deaths to drinking water treatment.

Healthy debate on any topic is a fantastic thing. I actually welcome it... and if you do the research you will see that there are just as many opponents of water fluoridation as there are supporters. And many of them are well respected, well educated individuals. But my personal opinion is that water fluoridation should not be mandatory in the presence of so much opposition and so much evidence of possible health consequences from the chemicals used in its delivery. If fluoridation is wanted in a specific community, then by all means implement it. There is no reason to make it mandatory though.

Appliance Man ✉
Jun '12

Yes, very nice ApMan.

And everyone agrees that cavities are down and fluoride is the reason. It is the delivery mechanism that is debated.

The CDC recommendations are above and, for the US, call for toothpaste and water. And, as your chart notes, some countries use milk and some use salt, both of which, as the WHO says: "has the advantage of allowing consumer choice."

But in this case, you vote for the European methods versus those recommended in the US and other countries.

As far are fluoridated water and poisoning people, lead, etc. etc. --- all have been discounted as noted above. I see no data indicating harmful side effects to water and most American scientists supporting it. Arsenic, lead, the fact the fluoride comes is derived from some nasty processes, all of this has been discounted in the research. Your report is from 2000, over a decade ago, written by By Cheng-nan Weng, Darrell B. Smith with no source information although I trust the info as being real for the year 2000. They were water engineers in Connecticut that actually concluded: "If your processes include the addition of chemicals, ask your manufacturer for the amount of arsenic in each." In other words, they concluded that water engineers should check all additives for contamination. As noted before, this makes good sense. No duh. By the way, Cargill were the guys shipping this stuff to CT.

Likewise, from you earlier fear of fluorosis due to water, the WHO says: "It should be emphasized that "topical" fluorides such as toothpaste can also have a "systemic" effect when they are inadvertently ingested by young children. Indeed, three independent studies in Australia, Canada and the USA indicate that 47–72% of dental fluorosis in children can be attributed to the systemic effect of fluoride toothpastes." Apparently those instructions are not being followed but that means a minority of cases could be blamed on water. Apparently, the dosage is much harder to control in toothpaste than in water. One kid's peas are another kid's basketballs.

And as far as chlorine added to water, yes I do agree, it's important, safe, and a good safety check. I was being silly. However, if one wanted to pursue chlorine as being evil like you pursue fluoride, one merely has to google to find:

- "The EPA has raised skin absorption of chlorine to its top 10 carcinogen Watch List." The Washington Post, June 1994

- Showering is suspected as the primary cause of elevated levels of chloroform in nearly every home because of the chlorine in the water." Environmental Protection Agency, Dr. Lance Wallace

Here's the rest of the hundreds of reasons that you should never shower or drink tap water again: http://www.cleanwateramerica.com/info_whatyoudontknowaboutchlorine.cfm

Now, after doing some research, I conclude that the benefits of fluoride are good - that's the most important takeaway from your first chart. The benefits of fluoridated water, both economical and effectives are good, the risk of fluoridation in water is minimal, and ditto for chlorine.

Of course, many, many, many leading scientists, health organizations including the legitimate ones you source, the ADA, and my Mom agree with me.

mistergoogle ✉
Jul '12

More on the effects of fluoride!

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/08/14/fluoride-effects-in-children.aspx?e_cid=20120814_DNL_artNew_1

Cliff R ✉
Aug '12

So you want to restart this food fight by promoting this web site? Dr. Joseph Mercola is a quack, pure and simple. Do you actually know anything about this guy?

RAD ✉
Jan '13

You can buy toothpaste, etc with fluoride if you really want it. Why force all of us to have it, whether we want to or not? Seems like to much "big brother" stuff.

Ingrid ✉
Jan '13

Dr Mercola has cured nine separate incurable diseases, including Type I diabetes, just ask him. He supposedly has a 100% solution to my disease. Last I knew someone actually followed his advice, they were on the floor in pain it was so bad. For three weeks, and was thin in and out of hospitals twice.

I will pass on Dr Mercola.

GC ✉
Jan '13

fluoride is not good. water should be h20 and nothing else. what happened to freedom of choice? people should have a voice in the matter.

emily denny ✉
Jan '13

Wouldn't it be nice if the NJ assembly actually created an economy where people would have jobs, but no they are working on Fluoride. Talk about a nanny state! haha, No wonder there is a mass exodus out of NJ.

pampur ✉
Jan '13

emily denny, if water were H2O and nothing else you would not be very healthy. Your body needs the numerious minerals (i.e. calcium, magnesium) that occur in water naturally for good health. Before you make uninformed generalizations, you should check the facts.

MeisterNJ ✉
Jan '13

@ Pyc, that may be true, as I've also read that fluoride is a by-product of some process (sorry, can't remember that detail) AND it costs "too much" for industry to manage their waste, so someone got the bright idea to sell it ... and con ignorant lawmakers.

Due to thyroid issues, I had to add spring water purchase to my overburdened budget which cannot handle doctor/presciption costs ... thanks alot lawmakers. Oh they had a "doctor" testify at the hearing in Trenton that it had no health risks ... boy do I have a few stories. Happy to say I'm doing better with spring water.

redmink1 ✉
Apr '14

Let's assume that the fluoride is indeed beneficial to the tooth tissue (dentin?).
But we don't just apply the tap water to the teeth and then spit it out, do we? We drink it. This "approach" (add a chemical to water) is sick! Apricot kernel oil is very beneficial to the skin, but we don't drink it - we could get sick. So, this assumption is wrong.
And, Redmink1, yes - I read in many "papers" that the so-called fluoride is not just in it's pure form, but as a salt or some kind of waste product from chem. industry.
I have no proof, as I don't have a chem. laboratory.
On top of all this, this "water additive" can combine with other "healthy additives" and wreak havoc with our bodies, on the cellular or molecular levels.

Pyc ✉
Apr '14

Mistergoogle, thanks for the heads-up ... I realized later that I didn't break out my comment in the 2 different subjects that they were.

Since I felt so much better by switching from tap filtered (chlorine-out) to spring water, I sure would like to know what exactly caused the difference.

For now, I'll just do my part by keeping chemical/medical nasties out of my waste water.

redmink1 ✉
Apr '14