How much do you need to make to live in NJ?
It's getting ridiculous in NJ. For a family of 4, living in a 3BR ranch, paying property taxes, daycare costs, car payments, mortgage, living expenses, utilities, gas, food, money for family vacations, life insurance, ltc insurance, ltd insurance, saving for retirement, college for kids, medical costs.........and anything else that comes up....you need to make a minimum gross of $140,000.
Any thoughts on that? Agree? Disagree?
Just for Fun
Agreed, it's unbelievably expensive, too expensive. This state is so corrupt and it costs us.
That said... I have been living (and making it, albeit *just*) for a family of one parent and one teenage boy (who eats for four - relax TonyS and Y&F, he's really trim and lean!)on less than $30,000.
Well 140K would make it easier to live as you desire but lots of folks get by fine with much less.
It all depends on the standard of living you want to maintain.
I do agree it is easy to spend every cent you make in the state today, no matter how much!
You need to make as much as you spend, hopefully a little more. I know a woman who just finished raising her 2 children on a salary of 18k (when her husband disappeared) to 42k (currently). No smoking, no partying, no manicures, no cable tv, no cell phones, no vacations. She always had shared housing and was very, very cautious.
I know a fair number of people I consider to be well off and I see them worried. When I go to grocery shopping I use to throw anything in my cart and not look at the price. I picked up some cheese last week and noticed it was $11. Maybe it's always been $11 but now I'm thinking -- there are plenty of people who work an hour or more to make $11. What are they buying?
Dolly 
My husband and I were just talking about this. How much more can we do. We dont make nearly that much but we are busting at the seams. I try not to think about it it only depresses me and we dont live beyond our means at all. You need to worry about everything.
Christine I hear ya Christine -- I try not to think about it either but it's always nagging at me.
I didn't expect to be worried at this stage in my life. Like you my husband and I worked very hard and made a lot of sacrifices over the years (do you remember where I spent my honeymoon?!). There were plenty of hard times but they were full of promise and so it was worth it. Now there is still plenty of hard work but a bit less promise.
South Jersey is a lot cheaper. Houses are half the cost in many areas in comparison to North Jersey. Maybe South Jersey will have the last laugh.
Matt I think it depends on what you think necessities are. Vacation? Not a necessity. I haven't had one in 13 years. I can't afford one, so I don't think about it. (I may whine about, but I don't think about it) Things that irk me are paying for TV now. I grew up where it was free and now it's an arm and a leg and a bill that gets higher and higher and you can do without it or pay the hikes. It's also hard to find a better paying job or one in your field in NJ, at least for me. I find it frustrating.
I hear ya, but I think the 140K is a bit steep. I know couples that make a lot less and get by. People don't need car payments or cell phones or some things, they just 'want'. (I'm not saying you in particular..that's just a 'you' as in some people...) I'd never judge someone else's life.
INeedMoreCowBell It's really difficult to make ends meet here in NJ. I guess I'm fortunate because I live a very simple lifestyle. I live alone, don't take vacations except to see family, only have a cell phone, don't need to buy a lot of groceries for myself and when I do, I make sure it's what's on sale. I don't need to buy "work clothes" and I seldom go out. Of course, property taxes, gas and heating oil are killers now. And yes, TV & computer too...ggrrrrr. But ya' know what? I lived in Florida for several years and although many people think it's so much less expensive down there, it really isn't. It's expensive everywhere. Just have to determine your priorities and try to keep that credit card debt to a minimum. And of course try to put aside a little for the unexpected. I'll admit I'm not good at doing that!
Maybe it's because I'm older now, the kids are on their own and it's just me, but I'm very comfortable not being stressed the way I was when I was raising a family. I'm at peace doing with less. Twenty five years ago, I would never have imagined myself downsizing to the extent I have.
Slade Other then the daycare I am not sure you are going to find things to be cheaper anywhere else.
When I moved here from PA things were just about the same. My cable bill was the same, phone was the same, electric when up a few dollars but my gas bill went down a few bucks. Property taxes were about the same but there we had state police coverage and it took them forever. Atleast here you have 2 to 4 cops right around the coner. In PA every town has a local income tax and when you add that to your property tax well I was paying more then what I am paying here.
My car insurance went down. The cost for a gallon of gas is cheaper here and they even pump it for you. There you have to pay to get your car inspected every year, starting at $35.00. Here it is free if you go through the MVC and you only have to do it every 2 years. My car registration is $10.50 more here. Still cheaper then in PA every year. oil changes still cost the same as well as other mantanaces costs.
So in the end it really depends on what you are paying on your home. If you keep barrowing against your homes value you will never get ahead.
Dolly wrote;
"When I go to grocery shopping I use to throw anything in my cart and not look at the price. I picked up some cheese last week and noticed it was $11."
$11.00 for cheese? You don't look at the prices and make comparisons before buying? Do you use coupons etc?
Welcome to the real world Dolly, glad to have you with us.
Wow--$140K??? I WISH!!! I could live the high life with $140K! There may be a lot of wealthy people in NJ, but there are more here that make waaayyyyy less than $140,000, kids and all.
Without a doubt our local and state governments are corrupt and spend way too much money, which cost us more. Everyone stays for one reason or another, and some move away in search of a lower cost of living. I've definitely lived in cheaper areas, but, I stay here because of family.
Want cheap? Go to northern Minnesota where you can buy a nice house for about $50,000 with annual property taxes of about $500.00. No kidding! Good luck finding a job, though.... There's nothing there!
SusieQ Mel, go back and read the quote you pasted into your message and you'll find the answer to your first question. In answer to your second -- no I usually don't use coupons, I read the news and ignore the circulars.
Oh, and I did buy the cheese albeit a smaller piece. I mean times are tough but I ain't eatin' Velveeta.
They use to call me a Volvo driving, latte drinking, sushi eating liberal. But I traded in the Volvo and so now you can refer to me as a Prius drivin', good wine swilling, 5 year aged cheddar eating elitist-liberal!
Good topic but it also is very dependent on the area of NJ you live in. Out here in Warren County you can live on less than you could in Morris; Bergen and parts of Hunterton Counties. However, if you go down to south jersey Atlantic County or even southern part of Ocean you can get by on much less. Just think $140k a year you could be "King" in some 3rd world country!
tigerfan Yeah tiger - Cumberland and Salem counties have the lowest income per capita in the state.
I was talking to a guy today who had retired to Costa Rica. He told me he and his wife were living well there on very little but they missed the states. They just moved to Florida where she returned to work full time and he part time. He said they now have triple the income they were living on in Costa Rica with a much less elaborate life style.
Dolly,do I hear someone in the back of the classroom jumping up and down wanting attention???? ,Froggy
,froggy It's all relative. I grew up on Long Island which is way more expensive than here, so to me and my husband we are finally able to have an opportunity to start our family and purchase a home we could afford. My parents paid $17,000 in taxes last year for a 60x100 lot! So part of it at least is what you're used to.
It also depends on lifestyle, as someone mentioned before. We are a one income family, making far less than 140K, but we budget and do our best to live within our means. We have two young boys and a third on the way this summer. I have not worked outside the home in over four years. We pay for most things with cash, so that if we don't have the money we don't buy it. We clip coupons, menu plan, shop circulars, utilize our library for books and DVDs, enjoy outdoor activities with our kids, etc. I enjoy sewing so I make things for us as needed and happily shop in thrift/consignment stores. We own a 3 bedroom townhome, which does feel a bit tight at times with our soon to be family of five, but we are able to make our mortgage payment comfortably and not worry about it.
It is important to remember that in generations past, people raised families on far less. My MIL raised 4 kids in a teeny tiny 3 bedroom cape cod with one bathroom. It CAN be done, we are just now accustomed to having more!
HappyHtownMommy Thanks for all the responses. It's understandable how some people feel that vacations are not necessities, but I haven't heard anyone talk about Insurance (Life, LTD, LTC), or saving for college for their kids, or putting money away for retirement....things I consider all necessities. Is anyone here doing that? Is anyone here making that a priority or just winging it and seeing how it goes?
I could cancel all of the insurance that I have, or not save for college for my kids, and not save for retirement and have more than enough to get by on, but god forbid something happens to me, I want to make sure my family is comfortable and worry free.
Actually, on one income of less than 100K, my husband and I both have significant life insurance policies, hefty 401K funds (although I no longer contribute to mine since I'm out of the work force for a few years - however I was aggressive enough when I was working that I am comfortable with the level it is at), as well as discretionary spending and 6 months living expenses accessible in cash. We contribute to our two sons 529 plans monthly and will open another one when this baby is born.
My husband equates it to a bucket - there is a certain amount of $ in the bucket each month. You decide how you went to divy up the bucket.
People would likely be surprised to know the amount of money we have in savings. We have a small home, as mentioned before. We both drive cars for at least 3-5 years after we have paid them off. We do not have cable, other than the basic channels. I keep the house cool in winter/warm in summer and cut down on utilities. Our weekly food bill is between $100-$150 and we eat mostly all organic foods.
We're just pretty frugal with the outside stuff, and prefer to keep our money in savings or use it for big purchases that we both want. Not to say we don't enjoy vacations and fun, we just budget it out. We are headed to the Bahamas in 2009!
I also want to mention that we both paid for college ourselves and purchased our home with no financial help from our families.
It really can be done!
Hey Happy........are you my wife?? Sounds like you have gone/are going down the same path as me. I have everything you mentioned too. How about all the things you can't plan for? Car repairs, new clothes for the kids, gifts for birthdays, christmas, and parties, etc.
Is organic food cheaper? That kind of sounds low for food. You must be a good shopper.
Back to a previous note, you mentioned that in generations past, people raised families on far less, which is true. But expenses have grown far greater than incomes have over the past 40 years. Families were making incomes of $12k back then and a house cost $40k. Cars cost $40k now. Decent houses cost over $400k now while most people live on incomes less than $100k. It's not the same as it was back then.
Most people ask me why am I saving for college for the kids, why I have life insurance, long term care insurance. Or why are you saving so much for retirement now? I don't think they realize how hard it's going to be in the future. Unfortunatley, there will be no more middle class in the future. There will be the haves and the have nots. People will realize that when it's too late.
New Jersey is absolutely incredibly expensive. We moved from Texas 5 years ago and the same money bought you 1/2 the house in square feet. Also, we had no state income tax, and we've had to get used to everything being so much more expensive! Gas, groceries, meals, everything! YES NJ is outrageous. I need a raise! :)
i agree this state is a joke from the shake down from motor vechiles to the cops more concerned about writing tickets than atcually maken a diffrence to our auto ins. witch im sure is 1 of the highest in the country and our taxs here are out of control im in double didget range and we dont even have a bus system
While I'm certainly not interested in engaging in a debate about whether the state is too expensive (which, I agree, the cost of living is crazy high here in the East), I'm happy to share some of the things that have worked for us.
Justforfun, it sounds like you genuinly want to know how we do it, and you were kind in your last posting and I'm happy to help.
Several years ago, before kids, we attended a conference on living financially debt free. It really focused us and we have remained committed to most of those practices since. Of course, it's easier to adopt those practices when it's just the two of you! It would be harder now with kids. We've also seen a couple speakers, like Suze Orman, who impacted us.
You mention that a decent home can't be found for under 400K - I would disagree. We bought our 2 Bed, 2.5 bath townhome in 2001 for 210K, and could sell it now for closer to 330K (based on comps in the area). It is not all we hope for eventually, but it is a cozy home which provides us the ability to live on one income comfortably. Should we stay here, it will be paid off in about 5 years.
Birthday parties for kids - only family members give our kids actual gifts on their birthdays. We have a family party, they get new toys/clothes/gadgets/etc from us and the gang. Then the friend party is related to a specific charity. As an example, this year my son chose to give money to the fire dept. I contacted the chief, who agreed to give us a tour of the dept. My son invited a few friends, they got private tours of the dept and saw all the trucks, and at the end each child gave my son a donation to give to the chief; and my husband and I gave one as well. We've done this with other charities as well.
Gifts and events - we plan for these as much as possible. If a cousin announces in November that she's getting married the following June, we start putting cash in an envelope right away. Whenever we remember/find an extra 10 or 20 it goes in there. By the time things roll around we've usually saved a considerable amount towards it.
Unexpected expenses - Like everyone else, we've got car repairs, roof leaks, etc. That is what our 6 months living expenses cash account is for. We pay for whatever we need, then build up that account again.
I concede that our kids are young, and we haven't yet been zapped with the whole Wii, sports, cell phone expenses that come with older kids. We'll see how it goes when that happens.
It is certainly challenging to live within tight paramaters, and requires some creativity and committment on the part of both partners. But the most important thing we got from these seminars was to establish your non-negotiable goals early, and work towards them. For us, that was to have no mortgage by the time my hubby is 50 and for me to stay home full time with our kiddos. Since we set those goals before we even got married, it's been easier to adjust to the various expenses that have risen dramatically (gas, for example).
I hope that some of these suggestions work for you and your family. I am certainly no financial expert or anything, this is just what works for us. I wish you lots of good luck!
I can see why it would be easy for you, HappyHtownMommy, you purchased your home before the prices skyrocketed. You lucked out!
MB I'm sure you're disciplined. But you have to admit, if you had purchased the same home two years later, it would've been a very different situation.
I'm a funeral director Happy, and just to remind you that you can't take it with you when you die. I have seen so many families fight over thousands of dollars when their loved one passes, its such a shame. I say live within your means but dont be such a penny pincher. Enjoy life, go on vacations. Life is so short, tomorrow is no guarantee. Be frugal if you want but sometimes people are ridiculous. I save money but spend also! I will not cut fun out of my life so when I die my family can fight over my money. No way!
I applaud you, HappyH'townMom. You have chosen to sacrifice those "Gimme, Bring me, Buy me, Take me's" for your kids. Bravo!! I did the same and stood up for it at a $20 million dollar school referendum meeting in Rockaway Township about 12 years ago. I was opposed to it as the "quoiffed crew" as I refer to them, voiced their *NEED* for Before and After Care at school because they "had to work". I had asked them, "Where do you live?? What kind of car do you drive?? What, or rather, WHO do your children wear?? How many video games do they own??"
I explained that my husband and I chose to buy a modest house, not one of the new McMansions that had just been built, drove paid-for/5 year old Hyundais, and, my son did NOT own any video games but rather, Candyland, Life, Monopoly, Scrabble, all game that required his parents involvement.
There are still townhomes and condos for sale in the $150 to $250 thousand dollar range. Folks just don't want to be *seen" in them.
Kudos to you. I was afraid I was the last parent standing who felt her child was worth the "belt-tightening".
Our home is STILL video game-free. My child's preference is books. And no, for any of you cynics out there, he is very well accepted, an Honor Roll student and a Super-Jock!! :)
Happy......Thanks for the note, but I am already doing all those things. Just was trying to get everyone's thoughts on how much they think they need to get by.
I didn't see anything in your notes about saving for retirement or having any life insurance, things I consider non-negotiable goals. I too got lucky with a house I bought over 12 years ago for about $140k and now can get about $330k. But where are we going to go if we sell our house to upgrade to a nicer home with more room in New Jersey (no where in NJ)? Even though our houses increased, so did everyone elses.
My opinion......but you need at least a GROSS of $140k to live here in Hackettstown and still be able to save/spend on all of the things I've mentioned previously in my notes. I may not like that it costs that much, and I do consider myself lucky to be able to do it, but it's always nice to vent once in a while of the insane cost of living.
Keep saving........
just me, you show me a townhouse in the $150 range (must allow dogs) and I'll buy it in a heartbeat!
Just me, thank you so much for your words. I was really starting to feel as though no one understood the message I was trying to convey. I'm not judging anyone or the choices they make, but just like you, my husband and I committed to certain goals early on. I was just trying to demonstrate that it absolutely is possible to achieve those goals with committment.
Just for fun, if you look at one of my earlier posts I noted that both my husband and I have significant life insurance policies (more than enough to care for our children through college) and we also have very well funded retirement funds. We have several other modest investment funds also. We contribute to our children's education funds monthly. However, our goal is not to fully fund their college education. Both he and I paid the entire cost of college ourselves. While that was really hard, and we don't want to do that to our kids, we will pay a portion of the expenses but they will all be expected to work and make up the difference. But in any event, feel free to vent anytime about the cost of living; it is difficult here in the Northeast! I agree with you on that :-)
Momof two, I'm not a penny pincher. We go on vacations, my husband golfs, I get manicures, etc. My message is simply that we budget those things in, and they are considered treats rather than expectations.
Just me, thank you again for your kind words.
PS everyone, I don't know why my earlier post shows up in bold...I didn't mean for it to look like shouting!
:-)
calico696 You're quite welcome, HappyHtownMommy.
Like you, I, too, take vacations, however ours are less about Disney World and World Class Resorts (though we have been to Hawaii 4 times!) and more about experiencing things like....
BajaDiscovery.com
We've gone twice and will be headed back again this March.
Ansd every summer for almost 25 years...
CapeAnnWhaleWatch.com
momoftwo, I don't believe in "taking it with you". I do believe in Living Within One's Means", and not raising our children with this sense of... Entitlement.. that seems to be the current parenting practice. Nothing wrong with Walmart gymn shorts and tee shirts. They look and wear the same, smell just as bad in a teenager's gymn bag and need to be replaced when the kid grows six inches in 5 months! It's just makes more financial sense to spend less while they're growing out of things so quickly.
We've has a bad year in '07, due to someone unscrupulous, but I am climbing out of it, alone, without anyone's financial help, other than the emotional support of best friends and the strength of faith and character.
Now that's a lesson I'm proud to teach my child!!
HappyHtownMommy - you hang in there - you are doing everything right. We try to live a similar lifestyle. Our girls are older but everything they have as far as games, etc. they have saved up and purchased for themselves. My 13 year old just saved up and purchased her own i-pod and is also putting aside money to buy a car when she is old enough. I'm a stay-at-home mom and we do not do as many things as some people do, but we do have a great vacation once if not a few times a year and have savings for retirement, etc. We also drive our cars until they are 10 plus years. We just try to live within our means and not purchase anything (on credit) that we can't afford.
Kate S. I applaude everyone like you also Happyhtownnmommy.The only thing hubby and I purchased on credit in the last 22 years of marriage(married 25 now) is a house. We learned the hard way unfortunately. ALthough I am crossing my finger since I do drive a car that is 10 years old and hubbys car is far more important fore his job. Its hrd to teach kids these days as they have the attitude "look what this kid has" . Its not easy.....
The best advice I ever had about credit came to me late in life, but to this day, I hold to it: Never buy anything using a credit card that you won't have when the bill comes in.
...gas for the car, restaurant meals, movie tickets or Blockbuster rentals, haircuts, something "on sale" that you might use maybe next year, etc., etc.
It seems like a no-brainer, but when I made the decision to limit my credit card spending on discretionary items, I was amazed at the amount of cash I had on hand every month..money that I could save and put away for something I wanted or save for my older age. It made me question every purchase I made. I really didn't want to whip out that card any longer because I knew the following month I'd have less cash in my pocket having to pay the card.
Wow, I fell upon this page and got some information I wasnt expecting.I'm 24 getting married next year and would like to start a family and I was looking for ways that young people can afford to start a life in NJ and I have to agree if you are just starting out you really do need to make close to 140k a year and thats really being realistic think about it. The cheapest 2 bedroom in Hackettstown was 215,000 and 4,029 taxes and 150.00 assoc fees that is a total of $2049.00 that includes no heat 75.00 month avg, electric 100.00 , cable/computer/phone 130.00, 2 cell 100.00, Honda Civic 312.00 month, Jeep Cherokee with 115 k miles (for the ones who are going to say i dont need to be driving a SUV) 350.00 month. Auto insurance on both 275.00 ( No tickets or accidents) Gas 400.00 month. Food 250.00. Monthly perscriptions 65.00 Student loans 250.00. Yes, I'm young but I have been on my own for years, I have saved 6+ months of expenses, I have a mutual fund, I have my 401 k set up. Even with budgeting in NJ for young people today its very hard. You have to remember I gave you a 215K house but I would also have to come up with 10,000+ more in saving for down payment and closing cost so I dont touch the magic 6 month living expenses. Also, remember if I plan to have a child add another 1,000 a month just for day care, then more for diapers, food, dr appts. I'm sure I have even forgot more $ such as oil changes,
Very Hard to be Young these days - I can feel for you but that's why parents tell their kids to work hard, get a good education and save their money. You are not going to achieve any type of finacial security without hard work. You have to be disciplined and focus on the truly important things in life. Unfortunately a lot of people buy into this mentality of "I want it all and I want it now". You seem to have a good head on your shoulder - keep up the hard work and you will succeed. And remember - no matter how hard it is for you, there is always someone who has it a lot worse. If you saw what some other people are dealing with, you'd be grateful to deal with your own problems.
Oh I agree totaly with you that some have it worse. My thing is that I do work very hard and still seem to get no where. I work a full time job Mon-Friday and also work part-time. So I think that is the fustrating part is you are really work your max and cant afford a simple home. My husband also does 10 hr days. I honestly feel like I'm doing all that I can right now and wish I was in a better spot. With that being said I see where all my friends are and I wouldnt trade for the world. Some are in college and dont even know how to pay their own bills. Just wish I knew how to make it in NJ or do I need to leave to get ahead
Very Hard - I would do the best you can to continue paying down your debt - student loans and car payments. It looks good that you don't have any other credit debt. You might want to delay buying a home right off (unless the prices really drop and you get a great deal) until you get rid of the debt. But, you are in a great position for only being 24!
Very hard - be patient. If you spoke to many of the people in the older generations, very few of them owned their own homes at 24. Unfortunately, your generation has been inundated since birth with advertising telling you that you need to have everything right now. It isn't true but how else are they going to get you to part with your hard earned money? You will come to find out that the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side. I spoke to a woman today who lived in Alaska for five years and now lives here. She said that while wages were very high in Alaska everything also cost a lot more there. However, she said the standard of living was much better in Alaska. The weather was brutal but the scenary was spectatcular. You need to decide what your priorities are and then follow that course. You are only 24 - enjoy your youth, continue to work hard, be grateful for what you have and everything will fall into place.
You are doing great! And for only 24!
You don't need it all right now. My husband and I rented a basement apartment for the first four years we were living together, we didn't buy our first home until we had been married about 2 years. You can do it - keep up the great work!
All in all this was a good thread. Let's hope everyone takes a little bit of the good advice and suggestions that were presented here.
Momoftwo -Everything in balance. You are right - you can't take it with you. But if my husband and I pass on I would like to think my kids would be okay, (they are both underage). You don't have to look any further that what is going on with the Knudsen family to see what can happen if you don't try to put something away for a rainy day. Once my kids are older and on their own then our priorities change.
Thanks so much for all your posts. My Mom says the same thing that I'm such a hard worker and things will come and I dont need it now. I dont know where I got that attitude from but your right I think I should have everything now or I'm not successful. Please know I do not live at home so I have pay rent so paying down debit is happening but not as quick as I would like. I guess I really dont know why I'm stressed I know I'm doing well but at the same time I think I should be doing better. I work in a dept with all younger people I'm the youngest so the others are 25-35 not one of them has a 401k, I started a mutual fund (only 25.00 a month I put in there) I have 6 months living expenses in the bank everyone of them are living paycheck to paycheck. Again I know I'm doing well but at the same time with everything I have seen I feel like its not enough. But I guess I should realize I'm doing ok and it will come
VHTBYTD - your mother is right! Us mothers stick together. And those things that you swore you would never tell your kids will come streaming out of your mouth - just you wait and see. Watch this video and tell me what you think - http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Mom+Song+to+William+Tell+Overture&search_type=
Jan- Thats was cute. I can see my Mom saying everyone of those words.... Now if I could just have my Moms words sink in I would be ok
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