I'm not the biggest Chris Christie fan, but...
... I found this pretty impressive, I have to admit.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/nj-gov-christie-clashes-with-teacher-at-town-hall/
ianimal 
maja 
Calico696 Thank you posting ianimal since I would probably get blasted, or worse the post removed...
He is very educated but he says it like it is in simple clear terms. Critics try to attack him with very weak arguments, but they only look foolish.
Jay "He called it like we see it".
I don't know, I see an awful lot of people out of work and worrying about property taxes and paying their bills. Christie sees the NJEA in everything he does. I don't want Corzine back, but Christie still seems like grandstanding out of touch with the rest of reality. Christie hasn't done squat about taxes that he's promised or even made the slightest attempt at filing (on purpose) for the federal support we supposedly have lost.
How about just one person, just one, that actually listens???
GC http://www.njherald.com/story/news/education-grant
I just saw this prior to reading this thread. It will help a bit I suppose.
Greg 
Babs 
Christine 
LVMomOfBoys 
Marvie
Tweety GC, Christie is trying to balance the budget; not spending money we don't have (to paraphrase CC). How can you refute what he says? Pensions and free medical care = better public education? Tenure (a job for life) makes for better teachers as a whole?
I think Christie is doing a great job. In 7 months he's done more to focus attention on real problems in this state than the last 3 governors combined. Remember Corzine raising the sales tax in his first budget and then allowing half of the increase to go to Christmas tree items? It may take some time before we see savings, or a moderation in our taxes, but for the first time in many years I have hope.
Ryan(ligitty) Jay - "How can you refute what he says?" I don't. I refute what he *does*. He hasn't done a single thing that he's said he will. Despite his NJEA personal feud he hasn't reduced dollar # one for us tax payers. His budget so far has been to increase the deficit by *record* numbers. He doesn't stop the spending, he increases the borrowing by every $2 for the $1 he cuts - look at his seniors and rebates programs. Teacher bigots miss the big picture.
Has he focused where there are issues? Certainly. But he also deflects the focus by incessantly talking about the NJEA as if that's the only game in town. (not my experience but our mayor during his personal meetings says "they just keep popping up") You can focus on anything you want, but did Corzine's focus eliminate Abott issues? Did GWB's "focus" on al Queda take out Osama? Not even close.
I'll gladly settle for results. So far Christie has none. Things haven't gotten better, but they haven't gotten worse. Small consolation. Rhetoric, even if the kind we can agree with, counts for squat...
Magpie who has the magic wand that will take all the troubles a way wit one wave or will we all have to work at it one bit at a time
Caged Animal I have issues with Christie's position on illegal immigration, but his economic policy makes complete sense. The only thing I question is whether he should have really vetoed the millionaire tax if it meant that it results in a loss of potential revenue for the state. I understand his position is not to raise taxes, but I think he could have pledged to have the millionaire tax phase out by the end of his first term.
GC -- I'm not a fan of people who state facts without providing sources. So I did a quick Google search to see if there is evidence to refute your statement and this article reminded me of something very specific (in addition to the millionaire tax veto). He capped property tax increases to 2.5%. I think that's a HUGE accomplishment in a state that has the highest property taxes in the nation.
Also, keep in mind that he's only been in office for 9 months and is trying to fix a decade worth of problems. He has to be meticulous in his approach.
"Today Christie reached an agreement with the legislature on his budget, which closes a $10.7 billion revenue gap -- the second-highest in the country, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities and a New Jersey record -- without raising taxes. The plan includes cutting $820 million in public school funding, trimming $445 million in local-government transfers, and skipping the scheduled $3 billion state pension contribution, which must be made up in the future. "
Here's my source: http://spectator.org/blog/2010/06/22/christie-and-results
ComputerSharp I also think the jury is still out on Christie. He's being touted as some great conservative. He's quick to point out all the taxes and fees raised by Corzine and the democrats, but I've never heard him talk about eliminating or reducing any of them. Instead, it's limiting the increase or "holding the line" which means essentially keeping them where they are. Maybe that's the best that a NJ "conservative" can offer. I don't know. I voted for Lonegan in the primary.
RJ GC, just like the UAW, the unions in NJ have, over the years, negotiated a Total Compensation Package which is not sustainable. Give Christie some time, the best is yet to come in the rest of the year. Actually, with healthcare rising at a double digit rate last year, just to keep taxes stable is an achievement.
Seniors did get their property tax rebate back, albeit capped at the 2009 rebate for an individual/joint.
It is not the 1970s anymore; a time when the private sector most often offered generous pension and retiree medical packages. It is 2010, very few private sector companies offer pensions and retiree medical packages. Instead, they offer matching 401ks.
It doesn't make sense to me that the taxpayer should be forced to pay for public worker benefits that are excessive. Sorry, but it just doesn't make sense to me???
Can anyone explain to me why these "Cadillac" benefits should continue in 2010 and beyond?
Christie's right in that we all are going to have to work together to
help the state get back on course. He has had to make tough decisions
and keep his focus. I am curious to see how this all plays out over the
remainder of his term. But for now, I give him credit for attempting to
make a difference regardless of whose feathers he ruffles....and I suspect
that will involve a lot more than NJEA reform, at least I hope so...
Spring Fever OK, before we go there --- Corzine s***ked. He just wanted to use NJ to get to the Presidency.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to slash n burn and that's all the AntiCristie is doing. He weilds the meat axe and the chainsaw well and lashes and attacks with a vengence. Not a touch trick.
But can he handle a scalple, finese an argument; can he actually grow anything? Doubtful.
When he gets pressured or cornered, he lies and that will be his downfall.
A one trick pony I'm afraid and due to current circumstances and past Corzine history, he is in his element. This too will change.
I do like his "attempt" at transparanency, however, his bungling of the free $400M fed grant money was HIS and was a shame. This $268M also was in the bag but he tortured the teachers before accepting it. Like pulling wings off flies --- great guy. My kids luckilly don't go to public school anymore, if they did, I would be off-the-wall mad. We couuld have easily had a full complement of teachers at the beginning of the school year and we are $268M in teachers down --- think of the ancilliary costs to fire, re-engineer all the schools to the new teacher-level, only to re-deploy after the school year begins ------------- what stupidity just because he wanted to hurt the NJEA and its members. Your kids got hurt too.
Hackettstown Harold So now that we have the Federal money coming, and districts are planning to hire back employees, what will happen next year if there is no more money coming in? Just like last year when Corzine used all of the fed money in one year even though it was supposed to be used over two. When the money is gone, is the Governor is supposed to find it in some hidden closet? This money comes from our taxes, so all of those people complaining about how Christie cut aid to our towns and schools should look at their tax bills. If the aid had not been cut, your income tax bill would have been much higher.
Gc - aren't you a teacher?
teachers were attacking and and attempting to ridicule the Gov. in the public space, and they were not prepared for any pushback, and so he gave it to them just like they were giving it to him.
I have know many fine teachers as individuals, BUT when you get them together over work issues they start to act like goons. Giggiling and Laughing out loud at someone who is responding to your question is one of the rudest and most disrespectful things one human can do to another. It is sad that NJEA members use this technique as a SOP.
I have seen countless times when a parent and/or taxpayer would dare to ask an honest question at a BOE meeting only to have the gathered union forces intimidate any dissent with these kind of mob tactic techniques. (which they all seem to have advanced degrees in)
The one's who are out of touch are these education association members. They just cannot be flexible enough to adapt to our present financial circumstances. And they are teaching our kids?? WOW!!
With all the crap previous administrations, (of both parties) saddled New Jersey taxpayers with it will take some time to get this state back in order and it will be painful. But I hope he keeps ruffling feathers - it is way overdue - http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/09/gov_christie_proposes_eliminat.html
Harold, re: the $400M in federal grant money that was lost: as I understand the facts, we lost by three points to Ohio and the clerical error in the fiscal year used for budget data cost us 5 points, so one could look at that and say that HE cost us the money.
However, the state lost FIFTEEN points on the grant application because the NJEA refused to endorse it. If they had, the clerical error wouldn't have mattered a lick. So, again, there's plenty of blame to go around.
I found this line funny, coming from you: "When he gets pressured or cornered, he lies and that will be his downfall."
As a self-professed "Clintonian Democrat", I would think you would regard this as a personality asset, rather than a detriment. Lord knows it describes Bubba to a tee, lol.
Just because you have "something" doesn't mean it is fair or should continue forever.
To the contrary, Unions operate primarily for their members. Consideration for who pays for things is secondary.
The big issue is how to we proceed when everyone knows that both sides cannot win. NJ can't save taxpayer money without lowering public worker total compensation. No one believes that efficiency gains will create a win-win situation anytime soon. For example, will teachers be able to remotely teach students so that a "class" is 60 to 90 students with only teaching assistants on site? This future, is far far in the future. In the meantime, compensation will be cut.
Let me just make a clarification - out of eliminate Abbott, remove COAH, get rid of state mandates, reduce state labor costs, and play Whack-A-Mole which one has the governor decided to do? I won't disagree that perhaps the mole deserves a knock on the noggen, but that misses the point. He doesn't have the power to do the negotiating, he needs to leave that to the BOE's. A personal feud when he's got far more effective ways to cut our property taxes just isn't a help.
BD - Definitely not a teacher, computer software.
sorry man, i got you confused with another poster on here.
the BOE's are for the most part in the pocket of the NJEA, they are overloaded with compromised individuals, (teachers, retired teachers, and those who are married to teachers.) so it is not a fair playing field. the gov. is trying to give towns and BOE's tools to combat this upward spiral of out of control salary increases and cadillac level fully paid benefits.
BD:
The NJ State BOE is selected by the gov and approved by the senate, so I guess he's in the NJEA's pocket too....
For the local boards, I could not find confirmation of your ascertion that the NJEO owns the local BOEs. However, in South Jersey, 20% of BOE members have some relative working in the district. Although conflict of interest laws exist, not much oversight and much circumvention possible. So, 20% is too high, compromised -- probably, but in the pocket of the NJEA and some sort of organized NJEA effort ---- NBL my friend.
And the only tool the AntiChristie has is a meat axe --- a blunt one at that. I applaud the goal --- efficient, better education. The approach --- damn the teachers, fire the torpedos, is simplistic and does more harm to your kids than it needs to. And when it came time to improve the system with $400M of YOUR money in Fed Aid ---- his team, that HE is resposible for, could not follow simple instructions probably because he hijacked the process and tried to redo the revised version too late, too fast.
So if someone wonders what we do after the $268M is gone next year, they should ask --- what COULD we have done and what did we give up because the AntiChristie lost over $400M because he can' read and follow instructions.
PS --- beyond the meat axe and the slash n burn budget ----- what tools is the AntiChristie providing --- I really want to know????
tools like the coming reforms to the arbitration process.
there are others promised but i do not know the details
in great meadows the vice president of the BOE is a unionized school teacher in Bridgewater.
Great Meadows recently had a president of the BOE whose wife is a unionized school teacher in the district. a very clear conflict of interest. most of the parents in town were quite fine with this arrangement as it meant that the BOE president would do everything in his power to increase the school budgete year after year. and as many of these same parents had their children in class with his wife, they sure did not want to rock the boat. the more supportive they are of the compromised family the more favors thier children get in the school system. on the other hand the children of parents who speak up at BOE meetings are subject to retribution by these same union teachers. those kids get poorer grades and more detentions. it is a scary place to send your kids.
the 20 percent is too high a figure for sure. and i was speaking a bit extemporaneously about who owns who. you actually supported my contention that it is indeed not a fair playing field.
also the video with Christie accurately portrays the behavior standards on the collective union members wen they gather in public. they have no shame and feel they have the right to portray themselves in any disrespectful manner they choose.
i am glad the Gov took them down a peg. they need the humility.
Bessie http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=rLSahbjR3k0
Because "He can't read", "He can't follow instructions".
Sure, because HE of course put that entire application together personally and single handedly. Furthermore, I think HE may be the first Governor to ever utter the words "ultimately it is my fault"
I was wondering how long it would take for the HE response -- almost light speed, almost. In all my discussions I am pretty careful to previously state "his team which he appointed and he is responsbile for," but I have stated ---- "his team." I will be careful to repeat it over and over again as I continue thorough my rant(s) to clarity the previously attributed responsibility chain.
And I would love to see/hear the AntiChristie "ulitmately it is my fault," because in the case of the missing $400M all I can find him saying is: --- it's Obama's fault, he made the form tooo hard AND it's Brett's fault, but I fixed that..... And actually even that's not true. He fired Brett for lieing and making Chris look bad, that was the fault of Brett, not for missing the question. Well actually, that's not true either; he fired Brett for GETTING CAUGHT lieing to Christie ---- not for making the mistake or the actual lie.
He only took action AFTER the video revealed Brett's ooops to the Feds.
They rejected the NJEA version and that's OK. Chances are that if he had accepted the revised version that Brett and the NJEA compromised on and agreed upon we would have the $400M. But the AntiChrisite reneged on Bett's decision and trashed the compromise deal at the last second and then they rushed it through on the weekend and dropped the ball. Maybe had the NJEA or other interested parties reviewed it, then the simple editing error would not have occurred. But editing might require a teacher and sc****ing them is more important.
Just like the $268M could have been easily recieved BEFORE school started which would have improved conditions, albeit this year's only, but one year at a time, one year at at a time, --- instead of waiting till the last second. But the AntiChristie is so intent on sticking it to the NJEA, that damn the kids, damn the teachers, damn the parents ---- fire them torpedos (or at least fire the teachers like torpedos so we can hire em back later after I (the AntiChristie) roast the NJEA a bit over this: ha ha ha ha, I will show them..... Great management all right (sarcasym).
Don't get me wrong, I applaud many of the goals, but the approach has a mean streak and that is just not good politics or business -- its a khan management style and it does not work for long. And slash n burn, weilding the meat axe to make the ledger add up ---- that's easy. Doing it with a scalpel is harder. And growth is very hard, it requires creativity. Have yet to see that from the Christie team.
The supposed $400 million in Federal money is just more fantasy. Where is the government getting the money to begin with? The Federal Government doesn't have $400 million to give away. It's not our tax money, it's money that is being taken from the future labors of the very children who are the supposed beneficiaries. Christie shouldn't have even applied for it if he wanted to be truly principled.
Don't worry RJ; he is, IYHO, principled, since we won't get OUR money from the Govt to use for school program improvements; he is so principled that he basically arranged for OHIO to get YOUR money twice. Once when youi gave it to the govt and once when Christie gave it away.... Now they can live your fantasy, rejoice!!
REJOICE --- Thanks to the AntiChristie, you are more principled and less principaled at the same time.
You must be proud. Broke (Ohio has your money), kids will have less learning advantages, but proud.
well Harold. i would suggest that the 400 million was never going to be awarded to NJ, that the feds would find some technicality to use to score NJ just few points behind Ohio.
ohio is a swing state and the democrats need it badly in the midterm elections. There is a case to be made that the obama administration does not want to make NJ's very popular REPUBLICAN gov. more successful then he already is
they were never going to give us the money.
HH, my tax money and your tax money was spent a couple trillion dollars ago. It's long gone. My kids will be responsible for paying off all this nonsense. Eh, but what's the difference? As long as we get all we can now, who cares where it's coming from, right?
How pathetic to think that we little people aren't able to excel on our own without begging for handouts from the benevolent government. Just send them everything you have and come back, hat in hand, filling out the appropriate paperwork of course, and ask politely for a gift or else our children won't be able to learn. This is what we've come to? Again, pathetic.
Whatever's wrong with the public school system (and there are definitely lots of things wrong), it has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of money we spend and certainly isn't going to be helped by throwing more money at it... check out this piece from John Stossell on 20/20:
http://www.truththeory.org/stupid-in-america/
If being called "stupid" by some punk-ass Belgian kid doesn't inspire your kids to study harder, I don't know what will...
RJ and ianimal:
I can't help but agree with you, but none of what you are saying is on point. The point is, wherever the money came from, whoever was paying for it, and whatever it was going to be used for OR would it be effective ----- the point is ---- because of the AntiChristie's team effort ------------------
OHIO has YOUR money and your/our kids don't. NJ does not even have the opportunity to fail with this improvement program (an improvement program which by the way was designed by the Christie team), we missed our chance due to a typo.
So if you paid for it, OR if your kids paid for it doesn't matter, ITS PAID FOR (or borrowed, who cares, its gone). The FED already reached into those pockets and took the money. And then, thanks to the AntiChristie TEAM effort, OHIO reached in again and took the money you/your/ours kids could be using ------- for good or for evil --- effective or not.
Its paid for, its gone, and NJ lost due to a typo.
Again, it all boils down to investing wisely (which the AntiChristie team proposal promised we would) which is the key to this, in America or Belgium, but we will never have the $400M chance to even fail, we didn't fill out the questionaire correctly.
I just can't imagine how you could defend this mistake as being beneficial much less OK.
ian...I cant watch all 40 minutes but skimmed through it. Pretty good. I like the Leno man on the street segment...Where is the Kentucky Derby held and what is the Bill of Rights? I bet healthcare is one of the answers you would get today-Healthcare was the 4th amendment in 1791 right? Exactly thirty minutes into the video you will find a great flow chart about what it takes to fire a teacher.
We know money is not the answer (Newark costs $30,000 per pupil and graduates 38% and Belvidere pays about $13,000 per pupil and graduates nearly 100%). If the feds printed 2 trillion and gave it to Newark they would still not be much further ahead. It takes intrinsic motivation, and you can't buy that. The charter schools in D.C. are a good exmample of moving in the right direction. Towards the end of the video (36:00mins) there is a good example of the difference. It is not a race or income issue either, it is a motivation issue. The charter schools in D.C. are made up of the same demographic as the public schools-minorities and poor, yet the kids in the charter schools are behaved and better educated.
The best bet is vouchers. The video mentioned Milwaukee where vouchers allow students to move to private schools. The students that went to the private schools improved, and so did the ones who stayed at the public schools. Competition drives America, and it should drive our education.
why are my posts disapearing from this discussion?
two of my recent posts have been deleted? I would like to know why or who is doing this?
hey! my two posts are back!
they were there for two days, then strangely disappeared for a full day. then i asked publicly about them , and now today (12/15) they are back?
what the heck is going on? who is doing this?
i have some serious issues with whoever is moderating these discussions.
anyways, i am glad we did not get the money, we spend too much on public education as it is.
money = power and influence. the more money we give the schools the more power and influence they wield. and we all know the kids are last on their list.
the only way to get control; back is to starve the beast, reduce funding while increasing teacher accountability, establish a voucher systems so parents can choose which school to send their kids to.
this is just a start.
Might this be part of the problem?
"We have a very large share of the American population that is getting checks from the government ... and an increasingly smaller portion of the population that's paying for it."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703791804575439732358241708.html
Jay, I have to tell you that I don't know where Belgian is either! Belgium, OTOH ... ;)
BD, as has been posted before the moderators seem to have an increased desire for maintaining control of the board, with the apparent goal of keeping the discussions nice-nice. Delayed posts are now the norm (for me, anyway), and it's getting increasingly difficult to keep conversations going because of it. Which, I suppose, is the point. BTW, your posts will probably show up. When? Who knows? Sometimes immediately, possibly within hours or even days later.
justintime Harold, forget the typo... it wouldn't have been an issue if the NJEA had endorsed the application, would it?
They cut off a bunch of teachers noses to spite Christie... the vindictiveness cuts both ways. The union wants the status quo to remain and will do anything they can to maintain it. Christie knows it needs to change and is willing to make short-term sacrifices in popularity to effect those changes. I support him fully in this regard.
As for you calling him "Anti-Christie", I remember Governor Whitman and consider that to be a compliment, lol.
John K - great analysis.
ianimal - you and I might not always agree but I thoroughly enjoy the links you've posted on this thread. Also, I think for the most part you and I are on the same page regarding the governor's actions.
As a public employee, I began contributing a minimal percentage to my health benefits. It's something I'm happy to do as part of my contribution to bring down the state's debts and hopefully put us on a better path fiscally in the long-term. We all were bracing in the Library world for the state cuts which were substantial but luckily not devastating. We've got a few more years of Christie so I'm sure it's not over, yet.
cbel CS, we agree for the most part... except for those times when you're completely and utterly wrong (-;
cbel, you could call him or her a Fleming and have a 50-60% chance of being correct (-;
I think the point was that you cant find Belgian on a map, only Belgium.
cbel - Check back to Jay's post where there's an error in grammar:
http://www.hackettstownlife.com/forum/221386#t222203
I believe that's the source of the Belgium vs. Belgian comment.
GC: I did see it before I posted. Just thought it was a silly comment. I think I'll go put my nose in a book now, where it belongs.
Not sure what you mean here, "They cut off a bunch of teachers noses to spite Christie"; hope you are not quoting me....
Folks,
All good ideas, vouchers, charter schools, etc. And yes, money is not the answer; but the same logic, no funding is not the answer either. I mean you are probably right, the Christie plan was probably a loser, Ohio probably would have gotten the money anyway, the whole thing was rigged by the Democrats to win a swing state and we are probably better off without the extra $400M in Christie improvement programs that would have stank up the joint and probably Ohio will lose big time with taking all of our improvement money.
So why did the Christie team waste all the time and effort? Did they just want to spend all this time and money to find a clever way to be able to fire the Director?
And why did the Christie team bother to fire all those teachers and then bother more to take all the time to apply for Federal Aid but doing so as late as possible to get the $268M to bring the teachers back well AFTER the school year started allowing them to hire the teachers AFTER they had already packed up and left?
I mean, I agree that efficiencies need to be put into the system; Newark is a shambles for example. And we need to focus on being effective, espeically with our tax dollars. And more is not the answer, better is. Vouchers, charter schools, all good ideas. Just throwing money at it ---- bad.
But throwing money away ---- I think that's bad too. Especially if you spend taxpayers dollars to throw the money away; we could have done nothing for less. So why did the Christie team do all this work and rework if we didn't want the improvements or we really thought the teachers should be fired. And if you believe we needed to fire the teachers, why spend the time and tax money to file for Federal Aid. And if you think we need Federal Aid, why file late so that you have to ask folks to leave, and then ask them back again ---- does not sound like a prudent plan nor stellar implementation, certainly not a money saver. And we didn't get vouchers or charter schools either.
So even if you feel better about not getting the $400M, do you feel good about wasting the taxpayers time and money not to get it? And if you feel good about firing teachers, do you feel good about all the wasted tax money to fire em only to have to bring em back again? Just think of all the teacher name tags that got thrown away and will have to be remade now........
no you are correct , this was mishandled from the getgo. and the buck stops at/with chris christe, it is his biggest stmble so far, but he will recover and move forward with other inititaves.
"And why did the Christie team bother to fire all those teachers"
Ok, so wait. Christie's team fired teachers?
http://www.thecartelmovie.com/
Interesting link related to Education discussion
I love the Bloomberg comment... direct and clear! Wait until The Cartel comes to Netflix, then it will get a lot of viewing.
That was a pretty good piece by Stossel, thanks for the link Ian.
Anyone know if the Cartel movie is available online anywhere, or if it's available to rent somewhere locally? It doesn't appear to be, based on info from their website.
I saw an interview with the filmmaker recently. After it's finished with the theatre release he said it will come out on dvd.
Too bad Christie can't fire the school boards. I just read a letter to the editor in the Warren Reporter. Seems like the GMRSD BOE gave a 20% raise to the Business Administrator. If I remember right, at budget time they said all admin. was taking a pay freeze.
OK, here goes another can of worms. Indy, I agree. Not only should the boards be fired (most of them have conflicts of interest anyway), but ---- and here it goes --- this township management system we got in NJ does not work. We end up paying more for untalented people, many with CoI, to make decisions affecting our lives and checkbooks.
I have seen the township thing work in other places, but it does not seem to work here. And I have seen these things managed on a county-wide basis with much more professionalism and a better bang for the taxpayers buck.
Not necessarily a belieive in bigger is better and hate to see it done on a state-wdie basis for example, but this township mgt. process in NJ is just too small to be effective out here where we live.
It bothers me that they are dishonest. At budget time, they will say anything to get what they want. At the budget meetings, the superintendent bemoaned the fact that we lost over 900,000 in state aid and that we had to pay 300,000 for the next three years to Hackettstown because of an accounting error. If the budget failed GM would be in dire straits and have to fire teachers. Well the budget failed and the state cut 540,000 from the budget. In the next couple of meetings they hired back all of the teachers and gave the BA a 20% raise. It just seems like you can't believe anything that comes out of their mouths. As for the township commitee, first they say they are all taking a pay freeze and then they say everyone is getting a 1.5% raise to cover their medical that they are now paying for the first time. As taxpayers we have been paying 100% of the medical for our school employees and our township employees and they have a problem with paying 1.5%?
Public workers' have been abusive via their unions and other entities such as BOEs.
If you can get away with something why not (they are not killing anyone right)?
Many towns have taxes going up 4% or more, SOS, SOS...
I just received an e-mail from the guy who did The Cartel on September 10th stating....
"The Cartel Movie has been picked up by a major distributor, and the DVD release date has finally been set. The worldwide release will be December 1, 2010. That's when anyone & everyone will be able to visit our website , put in an order for the DVD, and bask in the good feelings that will flow from helping reform public education. "
I saw the movie at the Sparta theater in June. It's an excellent movie and I agree with CS and Brotherdog that it is a must see!
M & K Yeah, I say put all the BOEs, school systems, planning, roads, etc. at the county level and then it might be more professional and trasparent, not to mention being able to draw a bigger, more vocal, crowd when they screw up.
The cap is 2% but there are four exemptions that can be outside the cap. If the cost of medical goes up more than 2% they can put everything above 2% as additional taxes. Increases in enrollment can also be outside the cap. At GM, they have used this exemption to get extra taxes even when we had a decreasing enrollment. It cost the taxpayers an additional 300,000 for students that we didn't actually have. This is why it is important to get the full budget from the BOE and study it. Many times they make things up just to get more money. Debt service is another exemption and if the school decides to borrow money you could see your taxes go up more than 2%. Go to the workshop meetings of the BOE because the decisions are usually discussed there before the actual public meetings. This is especially important at budget time. The decision about what is in the budget is determined at the workshop meeting. When they have the public meeting, they listen to what the public has to say, and then they do what they decided in the workshop anyway. The public input usually has no impact on their decisions.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/09/nj_police_salaries_rank_highes.html
Thought this was an interesting article. If the teachers are being forced to make cuts, the police need to as well. And it should all be done for the good of the people, not out of requirement.
The police are making cuts. My brother was just part of a demotion handed down by the state.
I am not commenting on that. While I have family in Law enforcement and in the teaching profession, I fully support Christie. I try not to discuss it with those family members as they refuse to see it any way but their own, which I can't completely blame them for. It is their lives and their careers we are talking about. Just because my family members are in those professions does not mean I cannot support the changes I feel are necessary for the state as a whole.
That's the whole point. If I was a cop I would not want any loss in benefits or compensation. While I might understand that cost-saving measures are needed, I would not offer up cuts or agree. This is human nature folks. But what is clear, is that when we cannot afford "things" that unions "negotiated" something has to give. The answer is not to tax the property owners out of the state. The answer is not to tax the property owners out of this state...
There's currently a big uproar in Hoboken over reducing the police department by 18 officers and this is what I find interesting. How can a town support 54 supervisors to 104 rank and file..seems a bit top heavy in management positions, 2 supervisory personnel to each rank and file. I don't understand that. Surely cuts can be made there.
From NJ.com news as a result of NJ Civil Service audit **The department currently has 104 rank-and-file officers and 54 supervisors, including a police chief and five captains.***
Maybe because they get a ton of Abbott money (that they really don't need anymore).
It's a good gig if you are one of the Supervisors (I am sure), but Joe Taxpayer takes it up the rear...
yep we have more government than we can afford!
reductions need to be made all over government. employees running around the town halls and the maintenece crews and all of the extra cops that we really do not need.
couple of years ago the Mayor of Clinton instructed the Chief of Police to have his officers write up every violation that they could as the town needed the money.
WOW! this is wrong on so many levels i don't know where to begin.
reduce the size and scope of government to get control over taxes. there is no other way.
I went to the Rutgers game today which ended around 6:30-7PM. My buddy and I decided to hang around the stadium for another half hour while it cleared out, we walked around a little bit and were most certainly one of the last to leave. When I went outside, I noticed 7 police officers just hanging around chatting to each other. I counted SEVEN! I turned to my buddy and said so that's what they do to prove their value to taxpayers. SEVEN! Just sitting around chatting outside the stadium, some probably getting paid overtime. And that was outside a side gate. I thought it was ridiculous.
CS -
you are starting to wake up! as you becme more of a self-actualized free thinkng adult, keep looking around. there are many examples of a bloated overbearing goverment all over the garden state.
go to your town hall on any given business day and just count the number of employees and take note of how engaged they actually are with the towns business.
keep looking, and keep asking questions, and keep talking about these things.
good stuff
A few more reasons to love of Gov.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/blaze-mix-video-top-12-chris-christie-greatest-hits-clips/
Peggy starting to wake up? What do you mean by that BD? When was I asleep?
I wasn't commenting on people at town hall. I was commenting on the police officers. I also think that teachers shouldn't be resistant to a pay freeze and contributing 1.5% of their healthcare if they were really concerned about not only their job security but the children's education ...
Sorry, but don't really care much for your condescending tone ...
Recently on NJN I saw an interview with one of the NJEA's spokesmen. They were discussing Christies idea that public workers should pay 30% of their premiums instead of 1.5% of their salary towards benefits. The NJEA guy said it was unfair to make people who don't make much money, pay money they don't have for benefits. When I heard him say that I thought about all of us on fixed incomes, unemployed, under-employed, and just struggling to make ends meet and forced to pay 100% of teachers benefits. Most of us have had to adapt to the new reality that we pay for our medical, there is no pension so you better save for retirement and you work harder and longer for less pay. The NJEA guy also said " Why mess with the system, it's worked so well for so many years." It's worked really well for the people who have everything paid for them. Not so much for all of the rest of us. It's unfortunate that the union doesn't understand that we can't afford to keep the system the same when we don't enjoy the same benefits as they do.
When the 1.5% of salary towards benefits was originally discussed, the teachers said it was unfair because teachers who made more money would pay more for the same benefits as teachers that made less. Now it's unfair because teachers that make less would pay more. Either way, the public would still have to pay 70% to 98.5% while at the same time paying for our own policies. Unfair?
cs -
no condensation from me. we all change with time, (even me), and maybe i should have worded it differently for you. no offense was intended there only wanted to agree with and compliment you on your sensibilities. i think it's great that noticed this, and i was urging you to notice more things like this (maybe even at the library)
i think it was Winston Churchill who once said "Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."
i was just overly enthusiastic about the possibility of your progress to becoming a conservative
BD - the condescending tone I was referring to is the "wake up" comment and "becoming a free-thinking adult"... I've been mildly interested in politics since the Clinton days when I was a young kid and was probably one of the few high schoolers paying attention to the Gore vs Bush race. I even remember watching the Dole vs Clinton ones as well. I think there was an obvious reference to my age with your comments and that's what I found condescending.
I hate the idea of labeling myself as a conservative, liberal, republican or democrat. If I had to pick, I'd say I'm probably more conservative-republican leaning, but there are many ideas that I think the Democrats have right.
I struggled with the governor election between Corzine and Christie. It's the first time I voted Republican and part of it was because I felt that if Corzine couldn't change things in NJ to be in better shape within 4 years being the head honcho of Goldman-Sachs, then we need to give Christie a shot. I thought Corzine handled himself well in at least 2 of the debates but in the end it's about results.
Obama vs McCain/Palin ... well ... obvious answer there. Who would want that idiotic Alaskan leading our country. While McCain might have plenty of experience to become a blinded Washington politician, I think Obama proved to be up with the times and I think it was time to put an end to this Iraq war based on false pretenses. I think we need to take care of Bin Laden and his crew and wipe our hands clean of that mess, just bolster up our borders.
Anyways - I've got no beef with you, your comment just rubbed me the wrong way. I'm generally conservative, in favor of small government (I am NOT anti-goverment) but like I said I think there are a lot of ideas that Democrats have that need to be given some merit (regulation = accountability of Wall Street). I also believe that there are times where a Republican majority is necessary, and there are times where a Democrat majority (like now in US) is needed. I think we're in a better place than we were in late 2007, 2008.
No one wants to "make" less even if it makes sense to the "masses". All of the protests by teachers make no rational sense, the arguments are just ridiculous; the only ammo they have is to criticize Christie's assault on them...
jay - you are quite correct again, the NJEA is using the same old phrases from 50 years ago and they do not realize how hollow they are ringing. they are indeed out of ideas and out of ammo.
cs - keep up the good work, and i am sorry for the way i worded that post. keep thinking about these things and come to your own reasoned, intelligent conclusions. this is why Churchill's quote is right on to me. I voted for Jimmy Carter in 1976. i know! i can't believe i did that either! (i was 22 at the time)
republicans do not always equal conservative, that's why i hate the RINO's (republican in name only, they have left the true cause of conservatism well behind where they are now) congress is currently overloaded with loony lefties and a bunch of RINO's. they all need to repalced ASAP.
keep up the good work CS.
Churchill never said that, BD.
The original quote was related to republicans and monarchists in early post-revolutionary France by someone whose name escapes me at the moment and was modified by Clemenceau in the 19th century to compare socialists and conservatives, but is incorrectly attributed to Churchill quite frequently... so often so that it becomes a commonly known fact, even though it is incorrect.
Don't people also wrongfully credit Churchill with "Only thing we have to fear is fear itself" when it was really FDR?
Given the state of education and knowledge in general in this country, CS, it wouldn't surprise me, but no... I've never personally heard that particular misattribution.
My favorite Churchill quote came from an exchange he had with Lady Nancy Astor.
Lady Astor commented to him at a dinner party: "Winston, if you were my husband, I would poison your drink."
To which he replied: "Madam, if you were my wife, I would gladly drink it."
ian , i got this quote from a quotes web site with churchills name attached to it.
maybe he knew of the quote from his own education and use a form of it himself in public speaking?
even with tthe source in dispute, the idea expressed is still straight on with me,
liberal leaning on or early lives because we have heart, conservative liening later on in our adults lies becasue we have brains.
it is a natural progression that many of us go through , (but not all)
and CS, never heard probably (and arguably) FDR's greatest quote ever attributed to Sir Winston Churchhill
and oh yes, Churchill has a lot of great quotes. i just love that guy. Times make the man, and sometimes a man can help make the times.
ian, cs,
check this out, i found in quick search on the quote attrbiuted to churchill, but you seem to be correct.
The phrase originated with Francois Guisot (1787-1874): "Not to be a
republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is
proof of want of head." It was revived by French Premier Georges
Clemenceau (1841-1929): "Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of
want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."
Guisot... that was the name I couldn't come up with, thanks.
The fact that Churchill entered politics as a Conservative and was a Conservative throughout most of his 20s, switched to the Liberal party at the age of 29 and remained a Liberal until he switched back to the Conservative party at the age of 49 leads me to believe that he never uttered those words more than anything else does.
well i admire Winston Churchill, and he was a conservative all of his life that I can tell, the liberal party with him in it was hardly liberal. he was always a hawk for sure.
he probably saved us from the Nazi's almost singlehandly. i mean he was the leader, cheerleader, strategsit and stalwart hero of the war. if not for him, england may very well have fallen to the germans. hitler for one, did not want to take on the english lions, he knew they would never give up.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Budget
"The 1909 People's Budget was a product of then–British Prime Minister H. H. Asquith's Liberal government, introducing many unprecedented taxes on the wealthy and radical social welfare programmes to Britain's political life. It was championed by Chancellor of the Exchequer David Lloyd George and his strong ally Winston Churchill, who was then President of the Board of Trade; the duo was called the "Terrible Twins" by contemporaries."
Taxing the wealthy and creating "radical social welfare programmes" doesn't sound all that "conservative", does it, BrotherDog?
"Who would want that idiotic Alaskan leading our country?"
Yeah, that Joe Biden is the real leader we need. Aside from being wrong about every position he has ever taken and every assertion or prediction he has ever made, his racist and bias statements, lying about his education, being a plagiarist, a condescending jerk and all around clown, he is a great leader. Although, technically he is not leading the country but as he recently stated, he is "second in line" to be president. Good thing Joe is ready to step in. We wouldn't want some idiot to be VP.
ian -
yeah that sure does look like a lib position for sure. still like the guy tremendously though, as he saved england (and maybe the US) from the Nazi's.
thanks for the corrections and the updates today, i learned a couple things here.
Gotta say, I'd pick Joe over Sarah Palin any day. Don't get me started on all of her gaffes.
palin is not as bad as youse guys are making her out to be,
i think it would be refreshing to give her a shot at the presidency, hey she couldn;t do any worse than who we got right now!
ok, ok, bring on the bashing, i can take it.
Christie does his best Corzine impression - http://videos.nj.com/star-ledger/2010/10/gov_christie_does_his_best_cor.html
NJ union leaders are angry over having to work on Black Friday - http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/10/nj_union_leaders_angry_over_go.html#incart_mce
Wow, I'm going to be off from work with holiday pay while state employees are working? That's got to be a first...
Here's there's a great slamming tape for NJEA around. Belly up to the bar boys, its apparently partying time.....
I didn't here about the tape. I did hear about it, though. Anyway, it's unknown whether or not the individual who made the tape used actors to recite some of the "statements".
btownguy "I can't print money like the federal government" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYGvRj8Z8t4
Here's one link to the tapes regarding the NJEA - http://www.examiner.com/essex-county-conservative-in-newark/o-keefe-videos-reignite-christie-njea-war
It might refer to this video (not sure as I just heard about this today):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i2L5xiFMts
Hey they stopped work on the tunnel under the river to NYC . what are they going to do with the mess they made. spending how much of our money ?
Another video for you Christie fans:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/chris-christie-im-a-sensitive-guy/
Come on, Chris Christie is just a big bully. What taxes did he cut? He forced the towns to cut their taxes, while cutting the aid he sent to the towns. That's pretty easy to do - forcing others to make tough decisions. I'll be a little more understanding if I see my NJ income tax cut in half when I fill out the forms come April. He hasn't cut the sales tax, or anything else that he would control the spending of. In fact, so far, he's raised my taxes, as the money I "saved" from the town property tax is less than the homestead rebate he cut that I used to get. And as for the tunnel, what do you think is the priority of the state government? To facilitate interstate and intertown travel, to help in the creation of jobs, to provide security, and to ensure its citizens are educated. All over TV commentators and politicians alike are saying this election was all about job creation. Well, gee, thanks Chris, you just lost a ton of jobs which would have been largely paid for by the feds and by NY. Other states' politicians are laughing at us, as they will now vie for the money we gave back. Oh, that's right, Chris doesn't care, because his friends wouldn't be those manual laborers who would have taken those jobs.
And Brother Dog, please, Ms. Palin would be terrible as a president. Even if she could figure out how to do it, which she can't, she promises to cut taxes, reduce the deficit and create jobs. How do you reduce the deficit? By paying it down. How do you pay it down if you cut taxes? And how do you "create" jobs? The government can create jobs (like the tunnel) if they collect taxes. But that's not happening. So, if the premise is that cutting taxes gets a company more money so they can hire more people, well, you're sadly mistaken, as most companies hire the cheapest way they can - from out of the country. And, without creating those jobs first, there's no one here to buy the products.
It seems to me the issue is that people seem to think only the very best dreams they have will come true. So, all the planning and the laws they want are all based on when they make it big and have a lot of money, etc. But that doesn't usually happen. And no one cares about the people who are not at the top.
And, since I'm on a roll anyway, did you forget about Obama's tax cuts? Probably, because rather than make it a political win by giving a big check before elections, he thought it would stimulate the economy more by giving a small amount in each paycheck, hoping people would buy more stuff.
Ken you ole lefty.... You left out the $400M typo; might have been a few jobs in there but WTH, they are educators and you know we don't want them in this State.
Christie did create one new job --- the Christie Show starring CC as the new Republican campaign shill. Gotta admit, he does put on a huge show.
Ken, do you understand the concept of a "deficit"? It means you are less than zero, spending more money than you have taken in.
Obviously, one can't lower taxes until spending is less than revenue. By reducing spending, he is bringing the balance sheet closer to zero. Once there is a "surplus", only then may taxes be lowered.
ianimal - ah, but, what spending has he reduced? so far, the only state government spending he reduced is homestead rebates, aid to towns, and now the tunnel. that's a cut to each homeowner and renter, and to the town governments. meanwhile, he has increased the amount of money spent on himself, his staff and other direct costs such as his cabinet and appointees. which is why i called him a bully - he forces others to cut, but doesn't do it himself first. and, while i get that he can't cut taxes, and shouldn't yet, his platform as he goes around the country extolling the virtues of chris christie is all about how he is cutting taxes. that is, he takes credit for forcing towns to figure out how to do more with less, while he doesn't do that himself.
"he has increased the amount of money spent on himself, his staff and other direct costs such as his cabinet and appointees."
fyi, that was debunked quite a while ago.
Ken E - But come on, all the people out in Indiana all eat this kind of thing up. And Iowa. And New Mexico. Not to mention the small day trips in Delaware, Pennsylvania, or Connecticut. How many of them know what Christie has or hasn't done? All they know is they paid a whole heck of a lot of money for that comedy act... ;-)
Iman ---- Your "Obviously, one can't lower taxes until spending is less than revenue." may not be so obvious given some of the Republican tax cuts in the past and those pending for the future. Aren't we talking about extending one to the wealthy right now, aren't we a deficit nation?
Like, justintime alluded to, your main point is untrue. However, you asked what he has done? He drew a line in the sand with the NJEA and the other public workers unions, like should have been done a long, long time ago.
In what kind of bizarro world do the employees dictate to the employer what they must be paid? I can just imagine trying to mandate a higher allowance from my father when I was growing up, lol... that would have gone over well. It's time for the people of this State to quit taking it up the backside from an "industry" that will extort every last nickel they can and say "it's for the kids".
Rather than paying whatever the NJEA demands, it's high time that we the taxpayers tell the union "Here is how much we can afford to pay for education. Provide the children of our town a quality education for this amount or we'll find someone else who can."
If they can do that without having to reduce the salaries of any teachers, great... but if they can't, then teachers will need to work for less. Inserting competition into the market by allowing towns to negotiate with individual teachers and completely ignore the NJEA should logically result in the reduction of salaries.
Because, not everyone with a teaching certificate is the primary breadwinner of the household; there are probably plenty of teachers who are willing and able to do the job adequately for less money. Why should taxpayers pay one more dime than they have to?
If the rate that the competitive market will bear isn't enough for some people, they are free to go into a different line of work. I would love to be a professional food critic; however, I couldn't make enough money doing that to support my lifestyle, so I do something with a higher wage scale.
The great social experiment involving "professional" teachers has failed, IMO. The only thing that's changed in the last twenty-five years regarding the education "industry" is the amount of money spent; there's been no such increase in quality of product delivered. Why should we keep paying for filet mignon when they keep cranking out Spamburgers?
I think Christie has taken the first necessary steps to address this. I applaud his efforts.
ianimal - i am not debating whether teachers are paid well or not. if i were, i would suggest that i know of no one who becomes a teacher looking to become rich. i know of many people who go into other jobs who look to and believe they will become rich. but again, that's not intended point. my point is that christie and the state government does not pay the teachers' salaries. he, chris christie, didn't cut the school budget because he doesn't own the school budget. what he, chris christie, did is to force the local towns to cut the school budget. like a bully, he forced others to make difficult decisions. maybe some towns should lower their costs. maybe other towns wanted to raise their costs. it doesn't matter apparently though, the towns are now told by chris christie how they are to handle their own financial matters. and, i certainly saw chris christie posing for the camera when a school district got a private grant, so i guess chris does think the kids will benefit from extra money. if you didn't like how your town was being run, then you should have voted for someone else on the town council and town school board. so, again, i say, where has chris christie cut the budget he maintains?
But if he's cutting aid to these school districts, thereby forcing school districts to cut spending, isn't he essentially cutting taxes from both ends? In other words, one of his primary goals is to cut taxes in NJ. To me, property taxes fills a large part of that picture. NJ has the highest property taxes in the nation. Christie capped increases at 2.5% - that's essentially a tax cut especially in towns where the town government were planning an increase over 2.5%.
So if he says to school districts, we're not going to provide you the state aid, then doesn't the school district have to think about how they manage their spending? They know taxpayers aren't going to go for a huge % increase in taxes, so they make some serious cuts. They cut unnecessary programs, and encourage eligible teachers to retire and teachers (that care more about their job than their premium paycheck or pension benefits) to take a pay freeze. This essentially helps the taxpayer to ensure that their kids are getting the EDUCATION they NEED and that the return on their tax dollar is brought back toequilibrium and that hopefully, in theory, their tax dollars are lowered. Sure teachers take a hit but those who are there to brighten kids lives rather than milk the school districts budgets are going to be the ones that stick around. Those are the ones I want teaching.
Amending my statement: "They know taxpayers aren't going to go for a huge % increase in taxes, so they make some serious cuts." -- They can't increase taxes more than 2.5% anyways!
Iman, I just can't believe you stated: "In what kind of bizarro world do the employees dictate to the employer what they must be paid?" And it is not DICTATE, it is the process of collective bargaining.
Unions do exactly that and Unions exist for good reason. Without them our quality of life would be dictated soley by the Rockerfellers, Duponts, Kennedy's and far, far worse of our world. Sure, there is a push n shoove, give and take, and things get OOC on all sides at times but clearly you and I would not have the life we do if Union brethren had not fought and died the success we enjoy. And to attack the process that made that happen, no sir, I say you are wrong headed here.
I do not agree with the NJEA or its tactics. And negotiating for competitive wages hurts even more in global markets like manufacturing. It's bad enough going up against a "robber baron" or the faceless corporation for a fair wage, but throw in the third world competition where pollution and $3 a day looks good and, let's face it, Unions have a tough job today in America. But Unions helped make America and made America better and Collective Bargaining was the process.
If you believe that was wrong or is wrong, I think you are wrong on point here.
And if you believe that the corporation, employers, or the state is entirely fair and benevolent, then psssssssssst --- I've got a mirror for you to see what Bizarro World looks like as well as some land near the old BP Plant in Great Meadows I could sell you for a song.........
Meanwhile, Chris Christie is clearly a bully. You know best how that will end. Sooner or later he will overstep and then be retired once enough people are tired of his bully-like tactics. He needs some variety in his tactics. For months he has bullied and beat up the NJEA (and perhaps they needed some but it looks like election-revenge as well), two weeks ago -- his Director of Ed took the axe (Chris got a little blood splatter on that one), last week --- he duked it out Lautenberg over the tunnel (OK, now he's going after Grandpa and now he's fighting above his weight class in the big league, good luck), this week it is Menendez (OK, this one's a bantam pushover). We know where this will end and it won't be an elected position. He can spend his retirement playing cards with Bush and Cheney or being selected for a Federal appointment (which is one of the reasons he campaigns, he is planning ahead).
But you should not smear Unions or Collective Bargaining in your attacks on the NJEA; too much real Union blood lost for our progress for you to do that.
How come Republicans are "bullies" when they stand up for what they believe? When Liberals try to push their nonsense on all of us they are called "principled fighters who won't get pushed around" or some similar praiseworthy description.
hh - you and i agree once again.
the rise of unions came out of a real need.
but right now in the education industry it is out of control
granted that pure capitalism with no restraints brings about a two class society over the long period of time.
and yes i agree that in the last 20 years the middles class has been dissolving both up and down, what i mean is that a few middle class folks are now rich and most of the rest have been pushed down the economic scale.
this trend has continued under both administrations.
between the outsourcing of good white collar jobs overseas and the importing of really cheap foreign labor has left a lot folks in the dust with none or few options.
i am unsure what the answer is to this.
Christie is still getting his wheels running, there will be a reduction in property tax next year, also there will be a reduction in state expenditures as the corizne guarantees run out in Jan allowing for force reductions.
it is coming and it is because we finally voted for someone who wants to make a real change from the status quo.
Can someone please tell me how "collective bargaining" (ie mob bullying) is different than corporate bullying? Unions evolved because of unfair labor practices, rightfully so, but now the scale has tipped too far toward the side of strong-armed unions.
The basic premise is one of supply and demand. Remember is that the pay scale for any given job is directly related to the number of workers having the required skill set. Virtually all of us can flip burgers if we had to but far fewer are trained accountants, engineers or lawyers. Unions today use lopsided, entitlement minded legal protections to strong-arm employers into higher salaries and benefits than the job would typically warrant in a competitive environment. This is great if you're an employee, but there *are* consequences to this. Off-shoring jobs perhaps? How about overseas companies undercutting us on price? IMO the environment we find ourselves in today - with 30 something percent fewer manufacturing jobs in the last ten years - is the price we paid for the scales tipping too far in the union's direction.
Anyway, I find Christie's actions refreshing. I'm still not sure how much he can accomplish, but at the very least he's pushing the scale back the other way. Can he find the balance? Maybe, but I do know that someone has to do it because the path we've been on is impossible to sustain.
Christie is a hot-air balloon on the fast , haha, track to the White House. If you think he's ruining New Jersey, wait until he starts getting his hands on your federal tax dollars.
Mark my word....just wait. Keep in mind, your vote counts.....
Rj ---- No, just not true. Opposition nicknames for Pelosi and H. Clinton far worse than bully and that's without digging for the Obama/Hitler nicknaming. And by the by --- bully refers to his "negotiation" tactics not his standing up. For example, he bullied his own appointed Director of Education, threw him under the bus, ran over him and backed up to do it again. That was not stand up at all especially when it started with his stand up statement, "I will not scapegoat anyone...."
Both parties have bullies, just not an endearing negotiation style over time. Lyndon Johnson was probably the master, but he had style and could do much of it in the backroom not on the internet.
BD/JIT -- I said I do not support the NJEAs and its tactics. I also said both sides (Unions/mgt) get OOC (out of control) at times and things get lopsided. Its an adversarial relationship, unfortunately. But it is unfair to characterize the scales as tipped overwhelmingly in the Unions favor, not all Unions. Likewise, it is unfair to call the Unions meanies or dictators --- the history is clear on both sides there. Frankly JIT you nailed it; the issue has become muddied in that almost anyone can be white collar today -- it's the new upscale burger flipper nation -- and that's why (to match your off-shore rant) without collective bargaining power, experienced, educated, employees are losing salary, benefits, and pensions which means total salary is being reduced far more. The entire middle class is being treated like the burger flipper you alude to. Perhaps Unions are not the answer for this, but what to do next after all the mid-level mgt jobs are outsourced as well --- service worker, craftsman, or burger flipper?
But like I said, I think I agreed with both of you, my point was that Ianimal is just plain wrong to say collective bargaining was a DICTATE; it is not and it was/is an important part of our success as a nation. It may not be as important to the factories going forward, might be more important to the accountants in the US going forward, but the workers did not dictate anything --- they bargained for it and they fought for the right to bargain. And that process is good and it is what made America. The results may not always be perfect, but the process is good and life without the Unions would be worse, for all of us.
As to Fred St. ----- your words are marked. NBL, but they are marked. We'll see if the Jersey boy can step onto the national stage before he steps in it, but my bet is poo-poo on the shoe.
Check this out...
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/11/njea_head_avoids_criticizing_g.html
Look, a politician that is a hypocrite? I'd NEVER think that.
If you're going to tell the teachers not to use the students "like drug mules", then you shouldn't either.
He's doing what he said he was going to do when he ran. Unlike these coservative democrats who now sound like republicans.
mrsammy Doing what he said he was going to do?
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/gov_chris_christie_accuses_nj.html
Now i understand how Hitler got the Germans to kill the Jewish people in Germany. He pointed his finger at them and said...There is the cause of all your problems... the Jewish race... and the mob followed him. Christi is nothing but a rabble rouser. Whenhe says your taxes are high because of the teachers..cops ..firefighters he is doing the same thing. Its all smoke and mirrors folks.
Have you looked at your property tax bill lately? What's your school tax ? Do you even own a home ? The teachers unions are a blank check for the democrats.
Gee Mr. Sammy, which Democrats are you speaking about? Let us know.
Both parties steal ideas from each other regularly. And Mr.Sammy, if we are doing the say-one-thing-do-another test, need I remind you about the last two Presidential terms of Republican fiscal constraints or Whitman's mortgaging of NJ.
Clintonian Democrats have always shot down the center; fiscally conservative, socially progressive (especially at parties!). Seemed to work, life was good.
Either party suffers when they stray to the polar extremes; the tea party is now dragging the Republicans too far to the right, good luck. Obama, Pelosi, especially Pelosi dragged us to the left --- don't think it was a sustainable strategy for her probably more like revenge for the previous 8 years --- bad form and now its bakc to the bench for her.
yes, he is doing what he promised during his election,
and it is making a positive difference already.
and there is more to come next year,
the teacher unions were just first on the list,
the rest of it (downsizing government) is coming soon.
Harold - All things considered, did the thought that teachers could only belong to one political party even rate a response? Not to mention when someone turns down school aid on purpose even though you could just as well have cut the state funding by an equal amount, what does this say?
Vous - Godwin aside, he may be divisive but it's more about raising money for his party than vigilante-ism. It's not that there can't be some good if some of it was just better focused.
Well could we use the same reasoning with the subject of health care cost?...I dont believe this... however to use the same anology... doctores and nurses are making too much money..so lets attack them and cap there raises. ..Christi doesnt want you to look at the man behind the curtin... Its easier to have him have us turn on each other..
GC --- not sure what you are saying but generally job trumps politics. The school aid was just a stupid mistake which he compounded. You and I paid the taxes that went to improve Ohio's schools and I am not sure that state funding was connected. But if it was, he didn't turn it down, they fumbled the ball.
He turned down the tunnel which may have been correct, fiscally speaking, but then again --- what we his chances with getting more Washington help --- politically or otherwise --- he had badgered most all ready. Not a tunnel maker or a bridge builder --- a one trick poney and while Dems/Repubs both have trouble iwth this --- it ain't hard to add to the bottom line and just say no.
Harold - "not sure what you are saying". I was saying three things.
1. Your reply to MrSammy was unneeded because the original post lacked any credibility
2. If you believe Bret Schundler under oath, it was no accident at all - Schundler says Christie turned down the aid on purpose twice
3. Even if Christie wanted to punish the union, he still could have taken the money, cut NJ's portion even more by the amount of the new aid, and lowered all of our taxes in the process
If attacking religions and race was once again acceptable christi would be doing that...thankfully those days are past...The teachers et al are now the newest target because they are a safe victem to pick on
State Troopers drive him around all day. Start with the teachers, educators, Trenton state workers, and then the Firefighters, and finally the Police.
Main Antiques hey main antiques... great job inserting the word nazis...not in my sentence..why dont you get a grip
..Pastor Martin Niemoller said " They came first for the communists and i didn't speak up because i wasn't a communist..............then they came for the trade unionist, and i didn't speak up because i wasn't a trade unionists.... then they came for the jews, and i didn t speak up because i wasn't a jew..then they came for me and by that time no one was left to speak up"
gc..im ashamed to say ...but in wikipedia there was about 40 godwins... which were you refering too.. im only asking so i can learn.. thank you.
The first step to learning is to not use wikipedia. I mean no offense, but wikipedia is a piece of crap as it is not peer reviewed and not scholarly.
Does Christie really have the power to lower our taxes? I thought that was a legislative action and all he can do is veto and use executive privilege (which I happen to disagree with).
Might Schundler have an axe to grind? Just saying is all, not that I agree or disagree with his accusations.
Fact is, we can go round and round all day as we can all come up with justifications for our positions. I'd rather look at the bigger trend, which is an ever increasing tax burden brought about by an ever bigger government funded by a system based on debt that is simply not sustainable in the long run. Follow the money, isn't that what investigators always say? In this case, follow the spending trend. It ain't pretty and really needs to be addressed, and if our current legislators aren't getting it done then it's our responsibility to toss them out and find someone else. I'm still giving Christie the benefit of doubt here. Time will tell if he really gets it or not.
nope btownguy,
you are comparing apples with oranges,
the schools were using teachers and class time to lecture and direct their students to be political activists with their own parents.
Christe gave a talk to students off campus and out of regular school hours.
surely a smart guy like you can differentiate between the two? one is a captured and controlled audience while the other was an event that was not required by anyone to be in attendance?
teachers were and still are using their captive students as 'drug mules' to bring sophomoric and nonsensical political drivel to their parents trying to get them to vote democratic.
or are you pining away for Corzine who got your vote?
gc:
2. first version turned down was njea's, that's fair enough. second version was accepted compromise between his staff and njea --- that seems weird.
3, nj taxes really couldn't be lowered; this program was for forward-looking new improvement programs. We just won't have the programs, Ohio will. He has paid lip service to doing something on our own, but he was just trying to diffuse the negative PR, the is no funding.
Actually he was pretty good on Meet The Press today except for alluding to Gregory as being biased. As one of the leading true journalists, not often does Gregory get accused of taking sides. He said no way in 2012 and never VP.
vous -
knock of the hitler references, they are not even close to what is happening here and that is why gc is invoking 'Godwin's Law' (good work GC). i mean get some perspective, you are trying to equate the holocaust with the laying off of a few gov workers? give me a break, please!
we have too much government.
we cannot afford this much government.
the teachers are public workers paid for by the government , so of course they are included in this discussion.
I think we need to trim the size and scope of the epublic sector by about 30%. with all things being equal that means we should be able to save or cut about 30% off our taxes.
this is a good goal.
Sir..Rabble rousers need enimies...100 years ago it was the Moly Maguires... my point is that there exist a mob mentality,,, we are easly led ,,,he is creating enemies for his political gain.....They have something you do not...lets get them!
Sir the style of this person is McCarthyism... he is looking for enemies for his political gain... im sorry..truly sorry..however this person will not lower our taxes...nor will there be any rebates..he is sitting back and laughing as we fight over scraps like dogs...this is old style divide and conquer....race and religion are off limits for political gain,,this person has invented a new enemy...sadly human nature never changes..." i don't have something why should my neighbor have it"....lets get them...mob mentality... and when times are tough for people there is always someone to exort the mob to pick up torches and pitch forks to attack his neighbor..We will get past these tough times but we need a leader not a rabble rouser...your sons teacher did not make the economy collapse...put down your torches...thank you..
BrotherDog,
So you're saying that every child that does to school is mandated and does not enjoy listening to or speaking with their teachers?
The facts are still the same. Christie spoke to students. This is a tactic he derided the teachers for. Why did he need to involve the students? 6 months ago he was perfectly fine keeping the students out of it.
Because Christie is speaking the truth and the union-motivated teachers are speaking, spoke, propaganda...
Vous...Now the majority of voters in this nation are rabble? So the GOP is just getting us "low class" citizens all wound up? For what? Maybe he is trying to keep the monstrosity (NJ state and local government) from getting any larger. Maybe.
I can't believe that the good taxpayers of the Garden State are now rabble to the left. Amazing.
btownguy -
you purposely misread my post.
i know you are brighter than that!
the facts are the facts , different situations.
he spoke to students, why not?
the teachers in class have a captive audience and they are using that power position to push their own agenda onto the kids, therby turning them into drug mules for the NJEA union shills. case closed, game over man.
I thought it was supposed to all about the kids?
I think all Vous, albeit badly, is trying to say is.....give peace a chance... No really, I think he is saying that Christie is a one-trick pony, a bully, in terms of his tactics. And this tactic gets short term results but not longer term gains or the best total gains. Then he goes on re results and issues like zero tax relief, etc. but that's another story.....
From my staindpoint, fiscal policy should target 0 deficits. It should not bet a mandate; did you buy you house with cash or take a loan? There are times and reasons to take a loan, run a deficit. I would suggest that recession might be a good one. There are also guidelines; you shouldn't get a $1M loan and house if you make $29K and have no savings. It just ain't gonna work. Thus Christie is born and NJ needs to re-allign its spending to reality either by spending less, getting more or both.
But Christie's method of slash and burn across the board cuts shows little finese, little thought or consideration, little creativity. And his bumbling of getting govt stimulus (our tax "donations") to help our ailing school system is an unforgivable stupid mistake. And it you don't think it's a mistake (Newark would just waste the money anyway), then it was his mistake to waste the time trying, three times.
His demonizing and bullying of any opposition or non-Christie-supporter is shortsighted. Do you think the Fed was going to pony-up to the bar for the tunnel given Christie's demeanor? As he said himself, Fla got 70% to fund one project, we got 20% ---- duh, Chris go figure why the Fed didn't help out... Some of Christie's Fed quotes:
- “Are you guys just down there checking boxes like mindless drones, or are you thinking?”
- Gov. Chris Christie said President Obama should apologize to New Jersey residents for allowing a “clerical error” in its “Race to the Top” application
- Christie said that 'You cannot give Barack Obama another 24 months with a Democratic House of Representatives, a Democratic United States Senate and a whole bunch of Democratic governors cheering in the peanut gallery'
- Christie, a Republican, said that Obama has been "incredibly partisan"
- Chris Christie On Obama: I Think He Should Talk To People Like They're Adults.
Maybe all of this is true but if he expected to scare Washingon into helping us, think again bully-boy while we think about these comments next time we are in the two hour wait at the Holland or Lincoln or give up that great job in NYC cuz it's just too long a commute.
A politician needs to persuade, to listen to all points of view, not just bully, namecall and beat-over-the-head. Like I said, a one-trick pony and will be short-lived success since once he falters enough -- he will be dealt with by all those he maligned along the way.
And now he is taking his act nationally, not because he wants to help NJ, but because, "I am supporting good people for America." Hey, we elected you for NJ, not to give our school aid to Ohio, not to let Fla get a better deal for infrastructure projects, and certainly not for you to mouth off against Obama's regime or democrates outside of NJ especially if your "straight talk" is costing us while promoting you and people outside of NJ.
vous -
why is it mccarthyism when it comes from the right? What have you been labeling these tactics when they have been coming from the left for the last 30+ years? Accurate portrayals?
come on man, let's be intellectually honest with each other shall we?
the njea is our enemy, there is no rabble rousing here. and i resent your trying to marginalize those who feel differently than you do as 'rabble'
maybe it's you who is part of the 'unwashed masses'? what a typical eastern liberal elitist attitude you have sir! when do you start thinking for yourself instead of letting the George Sorros/Arriana Huffington/MSNBC crowd lead you around by the nose? i will pray for your enlightenment. :)
It is all about the kids, now why do we have to drag them into this? Whether its Christie or a teacher, students are impressionable. If you put an orator in front of them that knows how to weave words, then they WILL make an impact. Christie knows how to weave words.
I'm looking at the plain and simple facts.
Christie said the teachers are using the students.
Christie is now using the students.
Hypocrite - and I hate hypocrites more than anything. Yeah, you can argue audience, but the fact still remains that he is now using students.
christe is not using the students.
just talking to them is not using them or turning them into union goons for the njea.
btw , i still think you are an intelligent and caring guy, maybe not as caring as browneyesguy but close
i just paid my quarterly taxes, and looking at the breakdown from last year to this, it wasnt the school taxes that had an outrageous increase. washington borough the local municipal taxes went up over 13% from 2009 to 2010. : (
Expecting the Federal Govt to pay up is equivalent to saying that the folks in every other state need to help NJ fund it's school system. HH, isn't that what you were mad as hell about in the first place, that Ohio (perhaps not, I don't recall the state right now) got OUR tax dollars because we didn't file the proper paperwork? Mad because they got our tax money, that WE had to fund their programs?
See, my big problem with all of this is that it's just an elaborate shell game, stealing (I know, I know - no one likes when I say that) from those who have it to give to those who don't. We're fighting to get funds here, right? Don't you think Florida is doing the same thing? And Ohio, Pennsylvania, California and every other state in the nation? Get the Federal government out of the picture and we would KEEP most of our tax dollars here, then there wouldn't be this knee-jerk reaction all the time to take the money from someone else. We would know who and where it came from and thus could reasonably argue what it is we could afford versus what we couldn't. When the argument for a program requires taxing someone else there is NEVER a valid reason to NOT spend! Why not spend if someone else is paying the bill, right?
But I don't want to get into a big argument here. Christie is talking about doing what needs to be done, regardless of whether or not any of us like it. He's talking "big picture", which is more than most of our politicians will ever do. Whether he's successful or not time will tell. But he does not have a printing press (which I think he's stated before) and must work within a budget. For that I give him credit.
jit -
agree wit you on this one.
i am really glad we got this guy as governor right now.
"just talking to them is not using them or turning them into union goons for the njea."
So then how is a teacher attempting to explain the situation turning them into "drug mules" for the NJEA?
BD -- you said "the njea is our enemy." They are our teachers too.
JIT -- apples n oranges. The taxes paid to the fed, or confiscated to use your analogy, are one issue but separable from Christie's performance as gov. And whether they are collected at the neighborhood, local, state, or fed is another issue, again not impacting Christie's performance and certainly a debate for another tread. Think there's some Shakesphere in this argument: "whether tis nobler to have cronyism at the local, state or federal level or...."
But how fed taxes are spent is a whole nuther kettle of fish, matter of fact, taxes can be collected before spending is even decided separating the issue even more. I was and am mad that we lost the $400M grant money for education improvement, period. I feel sorry for the kids to miss this opportunity. And when folks say, "good, we saved the money," I like to remind than no, we just spent it somewheres else, this time OHIO. As far as it being OUR money I mean the USA-ours, not yours and mine, not all of it is NJs, not literally except on an amortized basis. I think you know that. However, it should have been our money to spend for improvement for our kids and that's a shame and a crime.... I mean if Ianimal can beat me up and call me names for spelling errors --- what's his email to Christie gonna say?
I do not like the game of states out-and-out competing for fed cash for education. I do not like the game of states lobbying for cash either, but your notion of no fed taxes, give it back to the states means rich states win, poor states lose and that's probably not good for the country. And if we fund-for-ourselves, I guess we can save that HUGE military budget and we can use the militia for protection (sarcasm).
But that aside, once the rules are set and the game is on and once NJ decided to play --- we should win --- and certainly not lose by a typo. And if the NJEA's endorsement was needed, and I am not sure that is true, I think that Chirstie rejecting their submission is OK, but rejecting the ageed-upon submission between your Dir. of Ed, and the NJEA is even a worse mistake than the typo and indicative of this guys bully boy tactics getting in the way of optimum results.
And since we are on the bully topic, what about his bone-headed move to 1) let all the teachers go ($268M worth) and then delay the fed stimulus paperwork for 268M that was also in the bag just to torture the teachers before accepting it. We could have easily had a full complement of teachers at the beginning of the school year and instead we were $268M in teachers down --- think of the ancilliary costs to fire, re-engineer all the schools to the new teacher-level, only to re-deploy after the school year begins just so he could bully the NJEA. Bad business, bad management, bad bully boy politics.
Going back to Sept's Ianimal's "I found this line funny, coming from you: "When he gets pressured or cornered, he lies and that will be his downfall." As a self-professed "Clintonian Democrat", I would think you would regard this as a personality asset, rather than a detriment. Lord knows it describes Bubba to a tee, lol."
I would respond that Clinton precisely misconstrued the definition of the various acts that can be considered sex and Ken Starr and Congress have a more rigid, ahem, yet wider, ahem, definition. As Bob Dylan said, "the answer my friend, is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing..........in the wind." At least his lies weren't mean :>) and might even be considered chivalrous (how many of us want to confess to a BJ under the table for protection of the lady's honor) and only cost Ken Starr his career and Ken Starr only cost the country many millions in pinning down this most important definition of sex. But it was much more fun that watching Chistie name call and berate and bager.
And now to this weeks pending bru-ha-ha. As the Fed asks Chirstie and NJ to pay back $350M for the closed tunnel (Lahoods estimate), as Christie gets beaned for inappropriate spending on Hotels by the Justice Department ---- oh my ---- its gonna be bully boy bashing time again ---- get ready for some juicy quotes and bemoaning how "da fed is always pickin on me...." What can I say, shoulda learned how to read and fill out forms and contracts...
And now for the lastest Christie sightings:
Chris Christie kills the NJ racing and Meadowlands casino, favors Atlantic City
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=finley_bill&id=5796039
Christie seems to change mind over global warming, favors more national conservative view, Chirstie backing enviro group OK for now
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9JE57D01.htm
Christie does not want any olive branches
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9JE0UE81.htm
"I do not like the game of states out-and-out competing for fed cash for education. I do not like the game of states lobbying for cash either, but your notion of no fed taxes, give it back to the states means rich states win, poor states lose and that's probably not good for the country."
HH, I get what you're saying. But using your logic, isn't what's happening supposed to be happening? IOW, because NJ ranks near the top of the nation's "richest" states, shouldn't we be sending more to Washington than receiving?
JIT -- aren't we? Seems to me we keep turning down, turning away or decommitting from Federal Funds every day under the Christie plan. I think you might just be trying to tweak me.....:>)
And in a perfect world, perhaps, but not necessarily. For example, if NJ got hit with Katrina one year, one might think that it might get more than it put in for that year. Or maybe if we needed a tunnel, yes that's it, a HUGE tunnel ----- we could have a big year as long as we didn't act like jerks about it and rant and rave about the Federal morons. So not necessarily all the time and that's the upside of being a large country.
I think the point was that we are the United States, states united as a single country. Believe we cast that concept in blood during the Civil War. And being a country with 50 states has great advantages over being 50 individual countries. While it might not give us an edge against Europe and the EU anymore since they figured us out and copied our model (albeit badly), it sure helps compared to and to compete against those little places like Ethiopia....
i love this governor,
he put the kibosh on the big contract extension over there in parsippany.
he is the right guy for NJ at this point in time.
For all you Chris Christie fans out there... front page news on the LEDGER. Enjoy your on-line holiday shopping! I think I'll pass on this one. :-}
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/11/nj_gop_opens_governor_chris_ch.html
Hopeful in H-town so OK then!
;)
women's small in pink it is ,
sleeveless or v neck?
now what kind of wrappings? Xmas or Hanukkah?
He's giving Palin a run for the money, at least he's not pocketting it yet. Can a FOX spot be far behind? Or a Christie TLC Realiity Show; "we're canoeing here in the Meadowlands looking for indigenous wildlife ----- OMG it's Jimmy Hoffa......."
I understand the XXL is less expensive than the S :>)
Wow talk about the subject "diverting" LOL... It must be that all the posters on this subject live in apartment buildings. For those who don't, please focus on the EDUCATION part of your tax bill. It is the highest of all the 50 states. Now try and figure out how a state like North Carolina ( where my grandchildren seem to be getting a good education) can survive with a TOTAL property tax bill average of about $1500.00 in moderate housing to about $2500.00 on the higher end. It seems to me that they don't have an NJEA monster to feed...oh and don't forget our 7% sales tax, our lottery, and our casino gambling all of which were supposed to subsidize, to some degree, the cost of NJ education. Is Christie the man to help us? I sure hope so, and yes I voted for him. We must do something to stop the mass exodous of businesses and homeowners from NJ and I believed that Christie was concerned about the same. There is another posting on the board about all of the businesses closing in Hackettsown. Well this IS a Hackettstown forum so this is what to expect, but understand that this is happening all over the state.
I have to say, the more I watch and hear of him, the more respect I have for him. He is one of the few politicians who seems to not fear straight-talk. He addresses the tough issues head on.
Has he said anything about running for President? I know he is mentioned in chatter in the media, but I don't know if he himself has addressed the issue.
He is not running for President.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/02/nj_gov_christie_gains_more_nat.html
diesel He is just spreading the word. The more states that get on board with the necesary changes the better.
iPadJay Republicans are looking at him for a VP possibility ... I honestly think he should stick around for another term in NJ. Depending on how things are after 8 years, he could make the run for VP or possibly Pres.
The guy just got here! Can't we at least try to keep him long enough to see if his proposals actually work?
Honestly, I can't believe all the hype about Christie running for President. I would hope that the person wanting to be the leader of our country would have some successes to call his own before getting elected.
Chris Cristie for President Andrew Cuomo for Vice President in 2016.
Sounds like a strong ticket to me.
Roy I'm with Justintime on this one. Obama was in the Senate for 2 minutes and now he is in way over his head. Christie lost his bid for re-election as Morris County Freeholder. Once the base notices that he is not very conservative and only does what the political winds wisper in his ear, he will be dropped from any national ticket.
By the way...Happy Anniversary. Today is the 2 year anniversary of the stimulus bill that kept unemployment below 8% as promised by Obama, and all of those "shovel ready" jobs have really done great things for our country.
He may not be so large anymore - http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/02/gov_christie_is_losing_weight.html :):)
Now Christi wants to raise the retirement age for Social Security.Only the rich get to retire i guess. It s only fair since he wants to screw the State and Municipal workers too.
Raising the retirement age just makes sense. People are living longer therefore getting benefits for a longer period of time. I'd rather have to work a few more years and actually get social security than just have it run out/increase the deficit which is what will happen if we don't do anything about it.
So basically he wants to keep senior people on the job longer (the ones who are at top level salary) instead of them leaving and having someone at an entry level salary take their place which would save money. Doesn't sound like that makes a whole lot of sense to me if he is truly doing these things to save taxapyers instead of punishing certain groups to impress his party. I still haven't seen anything come from his miracles he's working. Someone let me know if you got your tax break or what exactly he has accomplished as our governor other than getting into fights with public worker groups and the feds over a tunnel. WHAT has he accomplished? My taxes haven't gone down, have yours?
NotImpressed um, john, maybe you didn't notice, but unemployment rates that were skyrocketing have been receding.
realitycheck There receding because most unemployed have run out of unemplyment checks. DH is one that still has not found a job and his unemployment ran out. unfortunately they dont count us as unemployed.
We were lucky our H'town property taxes went down after the reassessment was done. BUT thats not heloing us much when your unemployed, used all your savings, selling your house and now they want us to deplete our retirement funds before they help us. So MIDDLE CLASS gets screwed!! We did everything right to lose it all!!
Sorry should go over to the venting thread!
I think this is what you're referring to Christine:
http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet?data_tool=latest_numbers&series_id=LNS11300000
I don't want Christie anywhere near the White House. New Jersey needs him.
And, he's not a conservative. He's a RINO. No thanks. He'll be good for NJ (like Guiliani was good for NYC), but he's not presidential material (based on MY political ideology.)
If the Republican party nominate him, they will instantly alienate all the true conservatives. We won't vote for the republican candidate again, like with McCain last time. "The lesser of 2 evils" simply isn't good enough anymore. I refuse to vote for a RINO. I'd just as soon give Obama another 4, watch the country decline into Egypt, and then have a REAL revolution.
JeffersonRupub For all of you who really think Christie is doing a good job, you should really get the facts. He has no clue about anything and is all for privatization of everything which in turn means the state will have NOTHING as far as an infrastructure....NO BACKBONE. His speeches are NOT backed with factual information. He has taken the money AWAY from the public and GIVEN it to the PRIVATE schools, where his kids attend!!!! Our towns will all look like the inner cities soon due to him taking away almost all of the towns aid and cuts in public safety. You people better get your heads out of the sand and don't believe all of this garbage that this DICTATOR is throwing at you. Christie HAS GOT TO GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yes jay is right,
dik; you had better get a new tracy, cause the one you got is stuck on NJEA talking points.
it is time you did your own thinking instead of drinking the cool aid that BaBa K is handing out
B.D.Where do you get your talking points from?...probably fox news or that blowhard Jim Gearhart from 101.5
vous -
what talking points are you referring to?
can't answer untill you get more specific.
iJay Gotta give credit where credit is due.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/magazine/27christie-t.html?nl=us&emc=politicsemailema1
Really good in-depth on how CC picked the right battles, is fighting them well, is a certain mean bully and huckster showman, but is firing on all 8 pistons.
mistergoogle http://www.state.nj.us/dep/newsrel/2011/11_0021.htm
Good news for saltwater fishermen in NJ.
emaxxman Mistergoogle - Thanks for the link. I thought this was the most telling part of the article -
"In the union’s view, Christie is simply trying to exploit the downward spiral of the American labor movement. First, greedy companies, claiming pressures from the new global market, began rolling back the pensions and benefits that private-sector unions negotiated over a period of decades. And now, instead of trying to find a way to restore those hard-earned benefits for all workers, politicians like Christie are using corporate America’s bad behavior as an excuse to take benefits away from the last set of union members who managed to cling to them — those in the public sector. Christie is pitting one set of middle-class workers against the other, perhaps in the hope that private-sector unions will ultimately turn on their brethren in the public workforce, or that the public unions will turn on one another. And the end result will be that everyone loses. "
At least we won't have to pump our own gas - http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/03/christie_nj_gas_stations_will.html
Now if we could just adopt the other Oregon landmark law, we would really be smiling...:>)
Just saw your "telling part" thread; that's what I've been saying but oh so badly. Nice to see it done so eloquently. And I just love it when our Tiny Tim Conservative friends line up, bend over, and say, "please sir can I have some more?" After getting thier 40 whacks, they go out and look for some teacher to beat up. Brilliant!
OK -- seriously, we all have to suffer, to sacrifice, and teacher salaries/benefits/pensions need rebalancing at minimum, probably a sacrifice. But the rich should also sacrifice since they have done NOTHING to deserve owning more of America's assets than anytime in recent or even past history. And don't tell me they worked harder than the middle class or they are that much smarter so that they deserve to own more of America than in the last 100 years while everyone else owns less and is making less. There is a rebalancing that is needed there ---- as well.
"At least we won't have to pump our own gas - http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/03/christie_nj_gas_stations_will.html"
I, for one, would like to be able to pump my own gas. Some of the laws in NJ are ridiculous.
collegeviewrider Christe is doing a great job, best politician in our state in at least 50 years (maybe more)
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