School budget vote
gwgettoboy
In Washington Township, (Morris County)/Long Valley the annual School Board Election is Tuesday, April 20, 2010. Polls are open from 7:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. Voting locations are Flocktown Road School, Long Valley Middle School, and the Washington Township Public Library.
I know the public hearing on the budget is scheduled for March 31. I think the election is April 20.
Kate S. 
Long Valley's BOE asked their teacher's union to help by freezing wages this year. The response - NO. What happened to, "It's for the kids"? http://www.recordernewspapers.com/articles/2010/03/19/observer-tribune/latest_news/doc4ba36fc1b4f47904031353.txt
There is a board of education meeting tonight at 7PM.
There are 3 school board members running for re-election this year. 2 of them ignored the voters last year when we said no to the school budget and spent $600,000 turf field and a lawsuit to go with it.
Jay BLD,
Great Meadows teachers were also asked to freeze salaries. Guess what the answer was.
NO,NO,NO
indy2 From what I understand and it wasn't mentioned to the taxpayers the turf field has to be maintained every 8-10 years at a rough cost of 1/2 a million.
BLD, Everything that dedicated teachers do is for the kids.......still, it is not up to teachers to fix the problems created by the state. It is time to remember that the majority of teachers are not making astronomical sums, but the fair wages afforded to professionals. And yes, I am a teacher and proud of it. I went into this profession knowing that I would never be rich, but that I would be making a difference. Most people outside of education do not realize that teachers may not be making the large salaries advertised by the media. I have been teaching in NJ public schools for over a decade, have 4 years of private school experience, and have my Masters degree.....I just broke $50K this year for the first time. Yes, i have excellent medical coverage and am grateful. I love my job and am satisfied with my compensation. What bothers me is being forced by the media and the public to apologize for it. Sorry for the rant.....it's been tough being a scapegoat in the media all these weeks.
So who is running against them and what is their platform Dolly. Sorry I cant get to the meetings. You know why! Just would love to know!
Christine Kate S.
What does that mean exactly? New turf field maintenance was never brought up as I recall. This whole turf field saga in Hackettstown was done behind closed doors to begin with. This does not surprise me in the least. I will remember to vote them out come election time as others should do the same.
I know that Mary Beth Maciag is running for reelection and is the ONLY current member who deserves my vote consideration. I'll let her speak for herself but as I recall from her statements on WRNJ forum she expressed concern over the turf field not because she didn't want it for the kids but because on the tail end of the "NO" vote by the public, the way the vendor told the school they "didn't need to put it out to bid, trust us", and the big rush to do it.
We have got to stop spending and they don't seem to get it.
Dolly - I definitely agree with you on this subject - stop spending.
Mom off 1 and 1 - Don't forget you do not work 12 months a year. So $50,000 with great benefits is pretty damn good money. Let's not forget the Christmas vacation week and the winter recess or spring break and all the other holidays that you enjoy and get paid for.
copygirl Dolly, thanks for the heads up. I know Mary Beth and feel she is a good candidate.
I totally agree on STOP the SPENDING!
There is alot of waste in the School Budget and its not just at the administration. There are a few things I would love to see go away.
Right now I am just not thinking straight enough to go into it but when things calm down I will give more of my opinion.
Check out this website. http://php.app.com/edstaff/search.php
Go to Hackettstown High School's teacher list. Why are taxes so high? >:-)
At last night's meeting they came up with a preliminary budget -- 4% increase. Two BOE members said no, it's too much. Mary Beth was one of them.
"But it's just a few hundred dollars and it's for the kids!" If your taxes go up $200 this year, where do you get that from? What local business do you take that away from? Do you stop shopping Christine's store (heck I'm already buying second hand!), take that away from local restaurants, sell your possessions? Are you getting a raise?
Education is extremely important, and I believe in fair wages but if it puts us in a ghost town because people cannot support the businesses and the educational system we have a serious town problem. Is it worth losing a portion of our community to maintain the status quo in the schools in a time where no one else is able too?
dolly, Whats the reason for the increase? Is it salray and state mandates or are the asking for something specific (not that it matters). I cnnot do another increase in any of my taxes personally. Business is slow and DH is still out of work! I live on a very limited budget and have been going to food pantry for foodl (A lil embarassed to admit) thank heaven I have many friends and family that are cooking for my children right now BUT what does the BOE actually think the economy is flourishing? Its time to freeze everything and stop the SPENDING!!!!
The arrogance of the school board is incredible. The $600k they spent on the artificial turf field could have kept 6 or 7 teachers in the classroom. Instead we are now going to lose 10 or 11 teachers. The superintendent has called for a special meeting today @ 3:30 at the high school for all district employees. It is expected that the layoffs will be announced at that time. Every board member should be voted out.
rich724 Yup. Teachers do not work year round. Our family cannot afford any more taxes. Trim the budget. We do and so is everyone else I know.
Conrad's Mom Christine, don't be embarrassed. Lots of people are in the same condition. That was a preliminary figure that was bandied about at the meeting. They have to present all the details at the next meeting. I can only think they are living in some alternate reality or have jobs where they get mandated raises every year. Mary Beth works TWO jobs to make ends meet and sees things more on par with the average taxpayer.
There are two NEW people running, Damian Fracasso - a lawyer. The other is a school teacher who's name I don't remember right now. I know Damian but I have not spoken to him regarding the BOE so I can't comment on his positions other than to say he is very unhappy with the current board. And it's unlikely a lawyer would have approved signing that turf field contract without putting it out to bid (as we are required to do) on the word of the salesman who sold it to us! Good God, what bad judgment!
The second one running for the school board always has a VOTE YES FOR THE SCHOOL BUDGET sign on his lawn every year.
Joe Itkor, who is on the Board, is a teacher in the Newark School district, high school. "Abbott" district no less. One would think he has the kids best interested at heart, NOT!
Conrad's Mom, Teachers may not work the entire year but you forget that they bring alot of thier work home.
Some get home to have dinner with thier kids, have a brief conversation then off to grade papers, logging grades, doing progress reports/report cards, replying to parents e-mails and lesson planning. Not every class is given work sheets or scantron sheets to make grading easier.
You can add that to your list of things you didn't know. I call every teacher to not do anywork outside of school and then see how much gets accomplished. Nothing but a bunch of whinning parents crying about how their kid had to sit and read while the teacher was grading papers and didn't have time to "really go over the new material so they would understand the homework".
And you can thank your silly NJ ASK test for the push to get everything in in time. You know they really have to get a high score to get the extra funding so taxes don't go up.
CJ CJ, I think the majority of people want fair salaries for teachers or for anyone who does an honest days work. Two of my sisters are teachers and work very hard, as do many of us. I work many 12 hour days and what I would like to avoid is working 13 hour days.
I think what we need is a board that can give our students the best education THAT WE CAN AFFORD.
Dolly, did you say increase????? Who brought that up? Can we have names please?
No wonder I can hardly pay my taxes, the payouts are staggering at the district level. Something has to be done. They need to trim the budget and their overblown salaries. And that fiasco with the turf field, the people that voted for it should be voted out. Kicked out on their ass. What arrogance on the BOE. We are getting screwed by this BOE.
Dolly you said "At last night's meeting they came up with a preliminary budget -- 4% increase." Two BOE members said no, it's too much. Mary Beth was one of them.
God Bless Mary Beth. Who is the other person?
What is their justification for this 4% increase?
Thanks Dolly for sharing this information with the forum.
"I think what we need is a board that can give our students the best education THAT WE CAN AFFORD." states Dolly.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bruce Smith is the president of the BOE his terms expires 2010, vote him out. That is the only way to get rid of these clowns.
in the Great Meadows School Budget the current BOE is proposing a 1.2 million dollar increase in the school tax levy.
that's 1.2 million dollars!! they will be asking taxpayers to completely replace the 900 thousand in reduced state aid, and also ask for the maximun 4.3 percent increase from last years budget.
they also shortened the hours that the polls will be open for voting,
They are trying to limit the ammount of time that seniors can get out to vote.
one BOE member (who is a teacher in another district) is quoted as saying that they should ask for all of this money this year, so that next year if the 2.5 percent limit is imposed that they will have more money available.
this Union Goon of a tenured teacher just doesn't get it, i cannot believe the stupid arrogence of the Great Meadows Regional Board of Education
it is time they woke up and smelled the coffee!
BrotherDog
I just checked out the operating expenses of the Hackettstown School District on the BOE website for 2009/2020 ........OMG now I know why Hackettstown's taxes are the highest in Warren County.
We must start saying NO, voting NO and standing up to these people, they must be voted out.
I think that it is really a conflict of interest for teachers to sit on school boards.
Do you ever wonder about those wackjob parents that you see out there and commnet about on here? Do you ever think about the what they teach their kids at home and send them to school thinking and acting like?
Dolly I understand completely about working 12 hour shifts. I usually work 60 to 96 hour weeks.
CJ
Yes, the wackjob parents put it like this, 'it's for the children". that is why we must pay all these high taxes in this state. It's the battle cry!!!
jlwhs: Can you possibly explain how someone's working in a Abbott district translates into whether they care about kids or not? I simply see no connection at all.
FWIW: You couldn't pay me enough to work in an Abbott. Those teachers deal with things we don't even have to think about out here in Warren County.
marshmallow CJ -
I understand one thing loud and clear.... if they throw all these proposed tax increases on us between the BOE and their budget and don't forget the new property assessments that were done last year in Hackettstown that we will hear about shortly, there is gonna be a outcry!
you folks talk about being strung out taking time to grade papers & any extra work you do to be successful....think about private sector jobs.....I will tell you there are people working 24/7 mostly to keep up & not get fired. You need to look around, your neighbors are killing themselves to bring home paychecks & nobody is giving pay increases, paying for their insurance, cost of living etc. The stress is taking a toll on peoples lives, health, marriages, families etc. & they still loose jobs. What your seeing now is people at the end of their ropes so please get a grip on your station in life before you complain about your fu**ing stress filled day and thank God on High your doing OK.
Begin Again Finnigan kate S. , pampurr, I AGREE TOTALLY!!!
I have not voted yes in a school budget in 10 yrs. WHY!!! Because of the WASTE!! I only wish I had the time to run for BOE! I would!!
There's the problem. It's an outcry, and it falls on deaf ears. You have to stay mad, talk to everyone around you about it, and do the leg work to get the results we need. Or, we're just gonna get steamrolled like every election cycle before this one. And with the cuts in state aid everyone needs to collectively take it on the chin. If we don't send a message that gets heard by everyone, it won't matter to anyone! It's tight for everyone I know in town. I didn't get a raise last year or the year before that. I'm not going to the town asking to have my property taxes lowered to compensate. We adjust where we can and cut some here or there. The school board doesn't care to hear us. We're saying don't spend money we don't have. Put off raises, and projects, and trips, and extras. It's time to get back to basics. Maintenance and upkeep, not additions and upgrades. We have 3 kids in the district who have all enjoyed the experience they have had the last year two years. So why can't we just run the district at this level? No budget increase! Cut to meet your current cost like every other business owner and household in the district.
Christine,
You can run for the town, that would take care of the medical insurance issue you mention on a different thread.
The best we can afford, yes Christine that is what we should do. The best (in my opinion) doesn't include free medical care for life, pensions, and tenure. Well I take that back. It is the best for public employees, not the best for students.
Joe works in Newark and probably makes a S-load! Does he care about inner city kids, probably not. Id he afraid of inner city kids, probably yes.
Take, take, take what you can. That's what it is in a nutshell!
Mom of 1&1 - Here's an opportunity for teachers to show that "everything they do is for the kids" - http://www.dailyrecord.com/comments/article/20100323/UPDATES01/100323025/Christie-to-school-employees-Skip-raises
So far, Long Valley, Mt. Olive and Great Meadows teachers have all been asked and have refused to freeze their salaries for 1 year. I am positive not one teacher will agree to this because in the words of a teacher, "It is not up to teachers to fix the problems created by the state". It just left to everyone else. What great role models.
Exactly BLD, these folks wouldn't last 5 minutes in the private sector (AKA the Real World and we are not talking about MTV).
Answers to pampur's questions; my handsome man, Mike Sedita was the other "No" vote. We don't agree on everything, nor should my posts ever be taken as his opinion on the BOE or anything else. Like most married people we don't agree on everything (or much) but I'm proud of him and Mary Beth for trying to hold the line.
Both of them also voted no the turf field expenditure.
Let's not forget that the teachers are paying higher taxes in the districts in which they live, too......BLD, would you willingly take a pay freeze? Remember that, although teaching is a vocation & a calling for many (including myself) it is also the way that we feed our own children and pay our own mortgages. I know that there is no way to change people's minds and opinions. Still, you have to consider the fact that the trouble we are facing as a state goes far deeper than the salaries of rank-and-file educators. Would I continue to do my job with the same dedication if faced with a pay freeze? Absolutely. Would I volunteer to do so? No, and I refuse to apologize for that. I entered teaching as a profession for many reasons, and the compensation package was nowhere on that list.
Let's look at the larger issue instead of attacking one another.
Thank you Dolly for this information and thanks to that handsome man, and Mary Beth. Were proud of both of you for standing up for your belief system!!!!! Let's get busy and get the other SOB's out of office.
Wish he was filling old Bruce Smith's shoes, but no, Lorinda will be the big cheese. Business as usual.
Don't worry about the teachers that lose their jobs, they will be ok. There will be new stimulus money. Someone will need to go through all the history books and update the Declaration of Independence; to cross out the inalienable right of Liberty and write in the inalienable right 'to pay a fine if you don't buy health insurance'... that is unless they've already removed such meaningless drivel [the Declaration of Independence] from the history books, in which case I would retract my comments. It's been a while since I was in school.
In the real world wage freezes and cut backs have been happening for a decade now. The reality is you get called into the bosses office on Friday and get a pick slip with the promise of getting an unemployment check and maybe Cobra if you can afford it. That is your reward for working hard 24/7 as a loyal employee. These spoiled rotten brats who teach your kids think that they are entitled to wage increases HA HA grow the F UP.
Yea you know what, your NJEA has become so arrogant that you teachers are getting the enmity of a very stressed out & beat up electorate & it serves you right! Grow up, depose your representation & throw your selves upon the mercy of your neighbors who really pay your salary & recognize your living in a new (and more contentious) world.
Its not easy to be a teracher and itds also not easy being in any other proifession right now. Healthcare workers and blue collar workers are suffering also. Does the BOE really think passing on the state cuts to the taxpayer is what is going to help. The state is cutting busgets because there is no money and the taxpayers cant take the burden any longer. It SHOCKS the SH*T out of me that I hear they would like to higher the budget MORE!! When Ms. Ravo says "what do you do when your cable increase?", "you pay it"! So thats the answer? Increase the busget because we will pay it? This is the mentality the sickiens me. You were voted into this position by voters! Its time we speak out and get rid of the BOE that DO NOT HERE US!! I for one have been squeezed beyond belief. DH has been on unempoloyemnt for 14 months, My business sales are down 40%, no health insurance and no extras. the REAL WORLD cuts things they dont need when they cant afford it. Basic, cable, higher deductibles on insurance, 1 car, etc . Hell I even go to the food bank to feed my children to make sure I can oay my electric and gas bill. I am not bashging teachers I HIGHLY respect them for their profession and hard work BUT the INSANITY has to stop. Yes some cuts HAVE to be made and some may lose jobs and some programs have to be lost. THATS THE REALITY! Back to the basics is the key and it CAN BE DONE!
'
Sorry for the rant just sickens me!!
Barb It brings into question what happened to being a teacher because you wanted to ... well, become a teacher? I, too, looked at the salaries of teachers, many of whom are still teaching and was flabbergasted to see how high their salaries were. Of course it was commensurate with experience but holy cow. I think in a time like this, when taxpayer's income is being exhausted through taxes, including teachers themselves, there should be a pay cut across the board until the town is capable of getting itself out of the deficit. I think extreme mesasures need to take place. If town council are able to get health insurance and benefits elsewhere, they should be on there strictly voluntarily with no perks at this time.
Christine - I'm surprised sales have dropped so tremendously. Is Walmart really grabbing your customer base? I would think in hard times like these customers would be flocking to your store to find decent clothes at extremely cheap prices. I hope you manage to get out of the rut soon.
I'm so glad that so many of you feel the same way I do, that the school budget has to be cut down. The problem with voting out the Board members are that they don't have much competition. Not enough people out there willing to stand up and make a difference. It is an awesome personal commitment with no compensation.
CS, I have the same amount of traffic somewhat! BUT The consumer has cut down there spending. they are not coming in and buying that one of a kind antique or collectible. they are coming in to get what they need for a cheap price. The days are gone for the consumer to have a impulse buy! I have changed alot of what I bring in to help out my customer base. Its what I call "changing with the times". Its got to be done all over including BOE's!
FYI, you would be surprised how many people come in my store and tell me that they can buy this and that cheaper at Walmart or target for that matter. I just smile and say, "I never knew Walmart carried that name brand so cheap". I know for a fact they dont but I am not going to argue when the consumer is hurting also in this economy! the fact of the matter is the customer is looking at the price because they HAVE to. My rent, gas, electric and supplies get increased but my sales continue to decline. I am hanging in there!
You know what mom of 1&1...your right! We don't expect that you or anyone else would raise their hand and say "times are tough...let me help....cut my pay", however you really need to stop with the pity party about your wages and why you got into teaching (there is no way compensation was never a part of your decision making process, it always is...ALWAYS.. for everyone and you will never convince me other wise). I have been unemployeed for 1 year, prior to that I worked at the same company for 13yrs and there were many (too many) instances when times were tough that there were no raises....for anyone....period! This was not a mom and pop company but one of the largest and well known high tech companies in the world. Did it suck...yep...did we keep on workin....yep, and those who couldn't deal with it moved on. and since I'm gone the employees have taken a 10% pay cut...across the board! I'm sick of hearing how much teachers deserve the money, and they do it for a good cause and they serve an important purpose....you know what, I worked my ass off for that company, I missed my kids birthdays and numerous other important events in there lives, I said good night to them and my wife hundreds of times over the phone as I was going on hour 12 or 14 or 16.....and never not for one second did I feel the need ( as most teachers do) to tell the world why I didn't deserve to not get a raise. I was not entitled to it, the owner was! He took the chance.... he laid out the capitol...he built the business....he was entitled I was an employee, and if I didn't like it I could go somewhere else! But that's the union ( EVERYONE OF THEM) mentality....you owe me....I'm entitled! Until that changes and unions are done away with this country will never get out from this mess....not easily done when those who run our country are essentially a union themselves! Think of a financial issue (price of a car, cost of food, cost of construction and housing, ticket prices, TAXES)and with a little thought we can track it down to insane union wages and entitlement that are a big contributor!! So no I don't expect you to volunteer....but you don't have to....your union will protect you...we must give you a raise (independant of your performance - which sickens me and every other non union worker) and we can't cut your pay...so stop defending yourself and your peers you don't have to!
The Idea Guy Christine is giving real world information at ground level. Much of the BOEs and most public workers, and all unions want what they can get, have got period. They don't care how the money is to be found, they just want it. My reply to this selfish behavior is FU.
If anyone is interested in hearing what Bob Gratz has to say about the Hackettstown School budget he will be speaking at the PTA meeting on April 13 at 7:00PM. It is in the literacy lab at HMS.
Wow this thread is turning vicious. Christine - thanks for explaining the consumer pinching pennies problem. I guess I figured that those who can't afford 5th avenue prices but don't want to shop at Walmart (not that there's anything wrong with either), would try and find the gem at your store. I actually thought over the last couple of years stores like yours have been the rave. But I can see your point when you've got to compete with Walmart ... it's tough. I wish you all the luck. I still think that there are definitely a lot of outside factors outside of your control that ultimately trickle down to your stores difficulties. One of them of course would be high property taxes.
CS your right, as I stated in my post, "My rent, gas, electric and supplies get increased but my sales continue to decline. " My landlords taxes go up so my rent goes up.
Idea guy,
You have your right to your view, but you do not have a right to presume you understand my motivation. Do I want to make a fair wage? Absolutely. Am I complaining about my wage? I happen to teach in one of the lowest paying districts in NJ, but I am thrilled to be there because it is a supportive, nurturing environment for students and teachers alike. I am just tired of being the whipping post for our new governor and for the public who needs a new scapegoat.
Also remember that many of us have been touched by the tough economic times on a personal level ourselves. To think we are above the issue is simply not being realistic. I am sorry for your difficulty, but please do not attack my choices or my motivations. Public school teachers in NJ do not have a choice about union membership and many of us are as unhappy with that bureaucracy as the rest of the taxpayers.
The federal government bailed out the banks. the state took away funding. Now, these school boards want the homeowner, seniors, unemployed to bail them out and make up the difference that the state took away, and of course they want more than the state took away. The poor homeowner already lost his rebate and now the schools want what they lost from us. Don't you find something wrong with this attitude,way of thinking.It reminds me of a spoiled child . They don't care where or how you get the money, just give it.
Any increases should be based soley on merit. Period. Of course, the unions don't see it that way. And I can't recall when the last time I got a 4% raise.
antimony3 I want to thank "batman" for posting that pay link. I did a comparison of Hackettstown, Great Meadows and several other districts in other towns and in other counties. What I found was sobering. Our teachers make comparatively less than their counterparts in other districts. In fact, a teacher with 33 years experience in our district shows an income of over $25,000 LESS than in other districts! A teacher with 10 to 15 years experience shows a difference of about $15,000 LESS in our district. It would seem to me that we are being provided with a wonderful, valuable service - the education of our children - at far less than our neighbors in other counties.
Our teachers don't have to stay here. They do so because they actually love the kids and the community in which they work. They are dedicated professionals who work long after the kids go home - planning and grading. Many work over the summer prepping for the next year, painting/decorating and organizing their classrooms, evaluating/rewriting the curriculum, researching new ways to teach the same material, going back to school to learn more about how to help the kids who are struggling, and oh yeah taking time to relax with their own families.
Where else are you going to find a service that will educate all of your children for the cost of approximately $40 to $60 per day. Just do the math, if your property taxes are between $7000 to $10000, divide that by 180 days per year and you end up with about $40 to $60 per day to educate one child. If you have multiple children in the school district, the cost stays the same! This scenario is also assuming that every penny of our taxes is going to the school. It's actually quite a bargain! Don't get me wrong, however, I certainly don't want my property taxes to increase any more at all either - but let's not blame the teachers. They put up with our kids, with a smile on their faces, and come back every day for more. Every day they walk into the classroom with the hopes of reaching, motivating and uplifting just one more kid.
What price can anyone put on that one teacher who made a difference in our lives. Everyone has one...that one teacher who made a difference. That one teacher who believed in us and breathed that belief into us, told us we had the power to do anything and be anything we wanted. Most of us credit a particular teacher for being an inspiration. Teachers teach for that one kid.
How do I know this...because I am a teacher and I care about the future of our kids.
Show me any jobs that pay well in Warren County outside of some (Maybe not teachers but administrators yes) public sector jobs. Private sector jobs in Warren County pay crumbs; therefore your analysis TeacherMom is BS.
BTW - I, too, am looking for a job. A teaching job. But I dare say any district will soon be hiring any time soon. So, even though I care and want to teach...the best I can do is tutor to pay my bills.
Although HHS teachers have the choice to not join the union they are still required to pay the NJEA 80-90 percent of the annual dues. So in other words, by not joining they must still pay without the privilege of voting. Until the state government takes away the union's ability to do this, the NJEA will always have the upper hand with little or no input from the teachers. Lately we have all seen the headlines where teachers are refusing to pass on pay increases to keep positions and programs but this may not be the case if the teachers were actually asked.
There is a public hearing on the school budget scheduled for next Wednesday, the 31st.
"Public school teachers in NJ do not have a choice about union membership and many of us are as unhappy with that bureaucracy as the rest of the taxpayers."
I wish that everyone who complains about teachers would read this statement from Mom of 1 & 1 again.
Let's stop beating on the teachers and tell the administration that we cannot afford more. The teachers don't set the budget. The teachers don't do the purchasing. The teachers don't spend your tax dollars.
Let's just all agree that there are problems with our state. Our children, however, are not the problem. Regardless of who we are and what we believe, we all want NJ's kids to be the best and the brightest. Differences aside, the fact that we all care enough to post tells a lot about who we are as a community. Thank you for both sides....there is always enough to be said from both perspectives about any issue worth discussing.
Dolly - And that is what Christie is saying! The NJEA has been bullying every administration before this - both Democrats and Republicans. NJEA does spend our tax dollars! 80% of the school budget is salaries. The only way to bring costs down is to lower the salaries. Either you do that by laying off staff or the staff take a 1 year salary freeze and pay for their "Cadillac" health plans like everyone else has to do. If the teachers really "care about the kids" and their fellow teachers they will share the sacrifice everyone else in NJ is making. They can go to their union leaders and "demand" the change. If they paid $750/year for their health plan contribution, (which is less than $2/day that they spend for a cup of coffee) they could save their colleagues jobs. But as we have seen in Long Valley, Mt. Olive and Great Meadows they refuse. So I would say that they do make the budget Dolly. And they show us what great role models they are.
IT'S CALLED THE CHINA PROBLEM. If there were more jobs here then there wouldn't be a problem.
Mom of 1 and 1 and Snow - Then stand up to your union and demand the concessions. Support your fellow colleagues
http://blog.nj.com/njv_guest_blog/2010/03/gov_chris_christies_teacher_ba.html
I found this to be an excellent blog by a teacher. I know teacher bashers may not like it but it really is the truth. Please give it a chance. Thanks
Not really CDC, I could only stand to skim it. It talks about her "average salary" over 14 years, not latest salary (she probably doesn't want to publish this). Teaching may start low but it keeps going up, often beyond the private sector.
Benefits, who has them these days unless you move up the ladder. You average profession private sector employee has a 401k with some matching (say 100% match for the first 3% and then 50% for the next 3%).
It is a fact, all unions skew total compensation upwards over time. Period. How come the UAW agreed to a 50% pay cut after emerging -- they were overpaid...
CDC -
read the whole article, what a bunch of crap!
it shows clearly that you and that teacher just dont get it, at all. so much for your education!
the money isnt there. we do not have any more to give, so it is past time for teachers and their union bosses to step up to the plate and give back a little.
fogo some pay rasises, contibute to your own health care.
set student teacher ratios back to 1 to 25 instead 1 to 14.
start there.
Jay, his last published salary (08-09) is $60,720.
http://php.app.com/edstaff/details2.php?recordID=100423
I personally think that too much emphasis is placed on the teachers salaries. Just like any profession there will be inequalities that should be addressed but to focus just on the teachers limits our viewpoints.
I'm in agreement that the main focus should be on the upper levels of the "system", and that system is huge. How come we aren't talking about pushing our Federal representatives to cut Federal Dept of Education regulations and enforcement? What about the state bureaucracy? And certainly there is the local BOE to deal with as well. IMHO, focusing on the teachers is like picking the easy target, but the big fish - and the biggest bank for the buck - will be upstream. I'd love to reduce the size of the entire system. Do we really need NCLB? Are we not capable of deciding what's best for our own kids locally? It's not like a community would ever intentionally compromise or cut corners with educating their own kids - we certainly don't need big government to tell us how important it is!
justintime I'm with you on not picking the easy target, the big fish don't seem to be too affected yet. What will probably happen (and I hope I'm wrong) is that there will less teachers in the classroom, bigger classes, less needed tools for teaching but the big fish will be getting bigger and we'll still be in trouble. When looking at what is supposed to be cut in Blairstown, I didn't see any upper level jobs, mainly your teachers & cafeteria workers, no big fish yet :(
Bessie BLD, As I have stated in past threads, I am not a teacher. I am a nurse and a mom. I would much rather have my patients pee, poop, and throw up on me than put up with the mouthy little punks I see in and around HHS. Before you go after the teachers from districts that supposedly turned down pay freezes you should talk to one or two from each district and see if they were even asked. I know for a fact that one school district claims to have given that opportunity but the union turned it down before the membership was given a chance to say yes we will take the freeze. The union then turned around and told the membership that there was no such chance given. So now who's lying? The BOE or the Union? I guess it doesn't really matter because the teachers will take the fall and the union president (at the school level) will be the last possible one let go. And as far as the health benefits teachers receive, the package isn't all that good and doesn't always cover local doctors or hospitals. The teachers I've talked to would be more than willing to pay for healthcare as people in private sector do so they could 1. get out of the crappy state plan and 2. pick their own healthcare plan.
While I do agree there are some big salaries at the top that need to be cut or removed completely, there is also so much useless spending in Hackettstown's schools. Did we really need a $600,000 football field with a lawsuit to go along? Does the School Business Administrator really need a shower in his office to clean up after a midday golf game? Now I've never played golf (at least not past the putt putt level!) but do you really get that sweaty and can you play a whole round on your lunch break? I know when a doctor leaves the office to golf we don't see him for the rest of the day so I am going to assume it takes more than 30 minutes to get in a golf game. And how about the Superintendents clothing allowance? Really, on his salary he can't afford his own clothes? We already pay him $172,000 plus all the extras (cell phone, car, health insurance, etc.) and he can't buy a few suits for work. I think the Board of Ed should be looking beyond salaries for places to cut spending.
If schools were dedicated to the purpose of education and we cut out all the crap, made careful purchases, dealt with the union with a metal gauntlet, made some consolidations, and yes -- maybe put a few extra kids in a classroom, we would be in much better shape.
Dolly - we agree! I would also add that parents have to step up to the plate. You can't expect anything for free. Discipline your kids - make them understand that the world doesn't revolve around them. Life is going to be full of challenges and the only way they will succeed is to work hard. And even then there isn't a guarantee of success - but your chances are much greater.
"I would also add that parents have to step up to the plate."
BLD, I couldn't agree more! If more parents could understand the impact of their involvement in their child's education, of how much their kids would benefit, then much of the nonsense overhead in the schools would go away.
Dolly, I would love to see the union dealt with as well. IMO that needs to be addressed in Trenton and it seems that, at least on the surface, Christie is talking the talk. I just hope he can walk the walk.
hmm let's talk about some of the major issues in hackettstown:
first the turf field. did we need it? NO
did it get approved? NO
did it get done behind our backs AND WHEN THE BUDGET FAILED? YES
Has the superintendent taken a pay cut at all?
Why do we need a asst superintendent making what she does?
Why do we have budgeted money going to clock operators and scoreboard operators at all sporting events when that money can save a teacher or two? Let a kid/student run the clock for free.
Why do the supervisors not teach classes? Why does the athletic director do nothing?
Why does the superintendent get a car on top of his RIDICULOUS salary?
Why do we have so many adminstrators in general?
Why do we have so many superintendents in the area when they can be consolidated and money saved? SAVE THE TEACHERS JOBS, THEY MAKE NO MONEY AS IT IS!!!
Many school districts in SC have a county superintendent, couldn't we do that here? Do we really need all these superintendents driving around in cars the taxpayers bought, wearing clothes they "purchased" with their clothing allowances, talking on cellphones that the taxpayers are footing the bill for? If that would be too much work for one person, what about a superintendent stationed at each highschool that oversees all the schools in the district which would of course include any sending districts. According to APP.com there are 22 superintendents in Warren County. Hackettstown plus the sending districts have
Snow - And again I repeat myself - If the teachers are willing to take the wage freeze for a year then they need to demand that their union officials listen to them. If they feel their insurance plan isn't meeting their needs and they are willing to pay for another plan then they have to demand that their union provide it. I haven't seen that happen!!!!
Very valid points townie. I think when they have the budget hearing meeting they should present job descriptions of the administrators to see exactly what everyone does. That's where some savings could definitely be realized without sacrificing teachers and programming for the children.
Administrators, check out this link...
http://php.app.com/edstaff/details2.php?recordID=140413&GID=p7L/odByh8uXlpHk4OleGUhLy10ICVLCkMZseGeDGjM%3D
Townie, all points well made. Budget cutting needs to start at the top and come down, not keep spending at the top and eliminate the smaller positions. If there were answers to your questions, maybe we could understand why the superintendent needs an assistance who probably also has some kind of assistant or secretary and on and on. Don't even bring up the car if that's true. I never understand why the people at the top of the pay scale get the things that us worker bees have to pay for ourselves. I'm sure with the car, also comes free insurance. Since I don't know if the car observation is true, my comment is only a general one.
The reality of a pay freeze with the new legislation really means that teachers will lose 1.5% because of the money they must pay into medical in addition to money already paid by most for a family medical plan. A pay freeze means that a 0% increase is a 1.5% decrease in teacher's salaries. Teachers are paid for 10 months, not 12, meaning there is no pay check during the months of July and August. Medical, dental, pension money, and other items are taken out of the teacher's pay in Septmeber and October to balance out a 12 month deductions, Yes, teachers do put money into pensions. The pension issue is not just teachers, it is all state employees--including police. The Govenor never attended public schools; his children do not attend public schools. Why he is waging a war against teachers is beyond me, but it has skewed the public's perception to thinking teacher's are greedy: summers off, Christmas and spring breaks. These days are not free and clear from developing lesson plans, grading essays, creating materials to make each student successful. The job is not 8-3:00; for me, it's 6-3:00 at school and then another 1-2 hours at night. I teach because it is my passion. After 23 years, I can still say that I love my job! It only takes one child to say, "Thank you" to make me feel I have accomplished something great with my life.
Teacher Mom, I don't think Christie is out for teachers as much as he is out to reduce the strong arming influence of the NJEA. That appears to be the target, and IMHO should be.
While the following article isn't specifically about teachers, it most definitely paints the picture of why there is nearly zero public support for public workers today:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=%22The+Government+Pay+Boom%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=bcdf8cbbf06dc4f
Click on the news result for "The Government Pay Boom". I would have put the link in directly but the WSJ article is subscriber only and only appears to be accessible when referenced from Google. Go figure.
Jay-sad thing is the high paid paper pushers probably won't get flushed out and things will remain the same. I'm curious to see how this all plays out.
teachersmom is wrong on several points.
gov christie did attend public schools in livingston.
there are only a couple of the states over 600 school districts where teachers contribute to their healh care and it is a very small ammount. the rest of the over 200,00 teachers pay nothing towards thier health care policies which are 'cadillac' plans in the range of 26,000 dollars per year.
this is unsustainable anymore in NJ, there is no more money to be gotten from hard pressed taxpayers
the NJEA is completely out of touch with regular everyday NJ residents. they need to adapt or be eliminated.
I, too, am a teacher and I know for a fact my insurance is not a 'cadillac' policy costing anywhere near $26,000. Although I do not contribute to my healthcare(which I am not necessarily opposed to), I believe our insurance was truely negotiated. The BOE wanted to save a specific dollar amount in healthcare costs, and instead of contributing, we cut provisions in our coverage to fulfill the savings that the board was looking for.
It is a very difficult time to be a teacher. I have never complained about my wages. Many of those that get a bit defensive, including myself at times, do it as a reflex to being attacked by many that don't know the whole picture. Where I work there are a great many teachers that are club advisors/chaperones/etc for no extra pay. We don't complain, but get attacked for being greedy. Whenever someone is passionate about something, emotions run high. The whole pay freeze issue is evolving every day and we all need to see how it shakes out. I can tell you that even with a pay freeze, there will be layoffs.
Okay, I bettter stop now or I could type all day!
In the Hackettstown school system How many Job titles are there and what is the dollar figure of that job ?
CagedAnimal Snow - Brotherdog posted this on another thread - http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/bridgewater-raritan_teachers_u.html. How come the teachers in Bridgewater-Raritan can agree to a wage freeze but the teachers in Long Valley, Mt. Olive, Roxbury and Great Meadows can't?
Caged Animal, I think you can find the information you're asking in this link that Greg posted on another thread involving the teacher and public employees. Let us know what you come up with.
http://www.app.com/section/DATA/DataUniverse
I just checked the site that was linked above by Batman, giving teacher's salary...holy moly!! My husband is a teacher and I checked his salary listed on the site, was correct. Funny thing, he works in Morris County, has more experience (11 years vs 5 years) and more classes taught than the same type teacher in Hackettstown and my husband makes less! Hmph!
tripsy Caged,
That app.com link will give you person specific salaries but if you want to see the entire budget and operating expenses for Hackettstown you want to look here:
http://www.hackettstown.org/16121066143424127/lib/16121066143424127/User_Friendly_Budget_Info.pdf
and here:
http://www.hackettstown.org/16121066143424127/lib/16121066143424127/AppendixC%28120408_update%29.pdf
The only way reform will come is via some special task force that Christie needs to create to examine the "top heavy" schools and recommend solutions. The jobs to eliminate are at the top. The top is where the most politically savvy, strong, cunning, etc. reside. The typical teacher that just wants to teach will get eaten up as they can't compete with these folks; rather they will fall like sheeps to slaughter.
Snow - Already teachers in several districts, including in West Essex, Boonton, Montclair and Metuchen, have voluntarily offered to freeze wages. So again, why can't teachers in Long Valley, Mt. Olive, Roxbury and Great Meadows also freeze their wages? It can be done!
I have said it before the teacher are doing a great job! they need to trim the top salary of admistration why do need so many assistants to assistants . Do away with the chiefs and let the teachers teach and students have there education what they are there for. If your trim off the top salaries you won't have to cut classes or cut other activies. Let's get back to the basics and educates the students instead of feeding your pockets
rperch In my humble opinion, I believe that there should be severe cutbacks in school administration. I don't know what these people do to "earn" salaries of $100-174K but there is way too much administration overhead in NJ school systems and it is time to eliminate it. As far as wage freezes and pass through of benefit costs, I think teachers and other education employees should face up to the reality of the situation. Being employed beats joining the more than 10% of NJ workers already unemployed. Times are tough and they are going to get tougher. NJ taxes are already ranked among the highest in the country so if we really want to protect our childrens future it is time to say "NO" to tax increases.
CK Don't these teachers understand technology? - http://blog.nj.com/njv_kevin_manahan/2010/04/some_nj_teachers_are_educated.html
Okay - here is a list of school administors who are freezing their wages. So now why can't teachers do the same? http://www.dailyrecord.com/article/20100404/UPDATES01/304040003/Chester+among+NJ+school+bosses+who+will+share+aid+cuts+pain
BLD - great lnk, thanks !
hers is another one explaining why our schools are completely failing our kids for a competitve future.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2010/02/column-we-need-two-school-systems-.html
We need two school systems
Education in America could use a big dose of innovation. How about one public school system for employees, and another for entrepreneurs?
By Robert Kiyosaki
the link has the whole piece, read it all of you union teachers!! you are *NOT* preparing your students for a modern world.
BLD
After reading the list, I noticed that Warren County isn't even listed. Could that be an oversight or are none of our schools willing to join in. I thought that gmrsd superintendent and BA were taking a pay freeze, but that may have just been discussed and not decided on. Even if they all decided to take a pay freeze I don't think that it would go to reducing the tax increase. The school board seems to believe we can continue paying more year after year.
Not that it matters....we still have our lovely $900,000 turf field in Hackettstown, after the budget was voted down. Not to start up again, but....
How are our schools> ( completely failing our kids for a competitve future ) when pre school to eighth grade they are preped for High school , where they are preped for life or collage . and who are they compeating with .
I do think teachers do a good job in our state
I believe it is true that all positions of an administative category have agreed to a pay freeze at GMRSD. I am not teacher bashing- just a fact- the teachers at GMRSD do get paid for overseeing clubs ( a stipend ) and get paid a contract negotiated rate of $ 32/hr when they do other school related programs outside normal teacher duties, such as IEP meetings, homework clubs etc. Most professionals who are salaried employees do not get paid extra for those items. My husband works evenings and sometimes weekends at home to get his deadline met and does not get anything above his set salary. We appreciate our children's teachers more than words can say, however the bottom line is we can no longer afford the system that we have and it is human nature that people do not want to give back what they already have. Unfortunately in most jobs that happens without a say from the employee. Layoffs and job salary freezes and pay cuts have become a way of life for most families Unfortunately GMRSD does not have the excess in their budgets that some of these larger districts do. Will we have to find some cuts that both the taxpayer and the school board can deal with- YES. It is not compromising unless BOTH sides feel they gave in to some concessions. I pray that this can be done as both our children and town deserve it..
Funny teacher prank - http://www.urlesque.com/2010/04/06/math-teacher-pranks/?icid=main|main|dl8|link3| http%3A%2F%2Fwww.urlesque.com%2F2010%2F04%2F06%2Fmath-teacher-pranks%2F
Out of 600 school districts in New Jersey 115 districts have agreed to freeze or reduce wages for next year. Out of those 115 only in 16 have the teacher's union agreed to freeze teacher's salaries. In all the others it is the administrators and office staff who have agreed to the freeze or reduction. So, apparently the administrators have heard the taxpayers but not the teachers. Why is that? http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/index.ssf?/base/news-2/1270613122136240.xml&coll=3
our schols cost too much for te little bit of education that they actually deliver.
our kids are not prepared to compete in a global economy with college educated 'off shore' foreigners who will work harder than our mosty 'spolied' kids and they will do it for half the money.(or less)
big companies are learning how to get the work done without all of the extra employees. the jobs are not commng back, so all of these college graduates will continue to struggle in the marketplace.
on the other side, a AAA rated mechanic at a car dealership can get a six figure salary right now. can't 'outsource' your car repairs.
this is how our schools are failing or kids, they are not preparing them for this very real (and harsh) world we live in.
I am going to shift this focus as unpopular as this might be. Should our education system keep up with the challenges of today's world- ABSOLUTELY YES. However, working in a school system has allowed me to observe a missing link in many children's education and that is an involved parent who lets their child know that their job as a student is the most important aspect of their lives. It should take priority over socialization, sports, media etc. I can tell you that that is NOT the case with many famililies. I observe kids particiapting in multiple after school activities and the next morning bluntly say they did not have tiome for their homework. Communication with the parents does not yield a change in their habits. They are disrespectful in the classroom and despite appropriate school discipline and parental contact their behavior does not improve. Unfortunately, the public schools can not choose the students they accept or keep, so the challenges in this respect remain. Being a partner in your childs education is not just rhetoric, it is ESSENTIAL to your childs success. Until that happens, we will not be able to compete with countries who consider education of primary importance to success.
Outsourcing abroad is chugging forward. We are not talking about just IT jobs, rather any "desk job" -- Desk, computer, phone. People is many other countries are "hungry". Too many people in this country do not apply themselves and the outcome is predictable -- ditch digging, crime, a future of wandering from low-paying job to low-paying job.
The following excerpts come from an article in the Daily Record - http://www.dailyrecord.com/article/20100412/COMMUNITIES/100411013/Christie-takes-on-powerful-teachers-union-over-pay-benefits
"Lynne Strickland, executive director of the Garden State Coalition of Schools, which represents 100 suburban school districts, said the NJEA has become so accustomed to winning political battles that she thinks its leaders believe they can't lose on the pay and benefits issues. But the depth of New Jersey's fiscal crisis has presented a new scenario, she said.
"It's hard sometimes when you've won so much. You don't recognize that you don't need to win 10 of 10 times to move forward," Strickland said. "There isn't an overall sense of empathy that has surfaced yet for people losing jobs."
Michael Riccards of the Hall Institute, a nonpartisan think tank in Trenton focused on New Jersey issues, said state legislators have grown to fear, but not love, the union and hence are sitting on the sidelines now.
"Do you notice that the Democrats haven't rallied to the defense of the NJEA?" Riccards asked.
One such Democrat might be state Sen. Richard J. Codey, a former governor. In an interview, Codey said he thought Christie's portrayal of the union as the villain is over the top. "I don't think they're the big bully Chris would make them out to be," Codey said. "That they control the Legislature is totally false." But Codey also said the teachers are out of touch on some issues, as in their fight against contributing to their health care costs. "To find a person in the private business not (contributing for health care) would be like finding a bald eagle," Codey said. "They need to understand that.""
thanks BLD for the great post!
they don't get it because they don't want to get it.
they keep repeating the same old tired mantras and they do not realize that those old tired self procalimed truisms are ringing hollow. and they are failng to recognize that they are not working for them anymore. and yes the scare tactics and the intimidation techniques are being deployed by these goons at full force. and they are backfiring, (re: the 'internal?' memo to 17,000 teachers asking for Christe's death)
god work and keep em' coming!!
Amy wrote
"They are disrespectful in the classroom and despite appropriate school discipline and parental contact their behavior does not improve"
Call the parent and have them come pick up there un rulely child dont put up with it
Jay
What is wrong with being a ditch digger i bet there are a lot of people who have BA.BS. Master and who knows what kind of degrees out there runing the backhoes digging the ditches , cause there are only so many lawer, doctor,and rocket builders jobs out there
Caged- I would LOVE if that would happen. Sometimes, for very bad offenses it does, however, for the " average offenses " the school is left to deal with it.
Caged, it's honest work but tough to support a family and/or plan for the future on. These days we can't plan on anything so maybe its not that bad. BTW, I was being sarcastic and referring not to people running heavy equipment but literally digging with a shovel all day. Heck, at least when you work with heavy machinery you can see tangible results; many desk pushing paper god knows...
I hope voters do not confuse teacher's actions with the need to pass a budget in this very difficult fiscal year. In Long Valley (Washington Twp.) we have a 2.1 million state funding cut. If our budget does not pass and has to go before the incompetent township committee, many of whom have used the BOE as a political stepping stone in the past, our children's education will be down the toilet. Please do NOT let this happen. Whether or not you believe the teachers should take a pay freeze is beside the point right now becuase ultimately your children are giong to suffer. I am not a teacher, but a very concerned parent who does not want to see class sizes increase or vital programs disappoear. No one wants property taxes to increase, however they will go up regardless. And the issues with the NJEA should not be wrapped up with the budget votes. Christie and the NJEA are using our kids as pawns, and what does he care - he can afford to send his kids to a provate school?
Sandy Tides "our children's education will be down the toilet."
An honest question: Why? What, exactly, will happen to your kids that will completely ruin their education?
I ask because when I was a kid we never had any of the bells and whistles that the schools have today. I don't think my education was any worse that what the kids are being taught today. Likely better in some ways, possibly worse in others.
"Christie and the NJEA are using our kids as pawns, and what does he care - he can afford to send his kids to a provate school?"
He cares because he's in charge of more than just the education of our kids. He has to make sure that every function of the government of the state of NJ is run in a way that meets the needs of the citizens while maintaining a budget that isn't overbearing. IOW, it's about living within your means and not caving to political pressures for "more, more, more", when "more" is quite literally bankrupting the state. Don't take my word for it. Do your own research and see what I'm talking about.
I did not vote for Christie because I thought he was a typical Republican candidate - say one thing to get elected then maintain the status quo once elected. But I must say that I am pleasantly surprised that he is, at least for now, really attempting to get our house in order. The education system is but one component, and I for one am grateful that he's trying to get things back under control (or at least the illusion of control)
Has anybody noticed that the 2010/2011 proposed school budget is about $566,000 more than the '09/'10 budget ? Pretty interesting that the difference is so close to what the new turf field cost. Remember when we were told that this was going to come out of the "capital" fund, as if that made it okay to spend the money ? As if the capital fund was not funded by tax dollars ? Come on, how stupid do you think we are ? Let's remember when we vote on the school board elections who voted to spend this money and who didn't.
Just in time wote
"He cares because he's in charge of more than just the education of our kids. He has to make sure that every function of the government of the state of NJ is run in a way that meets the needs of the citizens while maintaining a budget that isn't overbearing. IOW, it's about living within your means and not caving to political pressures for "more, more, more", when "more" is quite literally bankrupting the state. Don't take my word for it. Do your own research and see what I'm talking about."
I want to point to this >it's about living within your means and not caving to political pressures for "more, more, more", when "more" is quite literally bankrupting the state. < and my thoughts are theres a lot of us in jersey whos means can no longer meet the up ward climbing costs ,Be it due to less in come, job less, or reaching the over 65 age when you no longer work or cant work for health reasons . what are these people to do cause they are trying to live with in there means . should we throw them out in the cold and rain cause they can no longer meet the rise in taxes. No i say ! we need to find ways to fund the needs of the state and still fit into the means of the working and not working residents of the state . and it has to start some place . and if education costs is that place ,so be it .
(Just in time) that was a good post
So i say vote no on the bugets in your areas send a message that we cant afford it. And yes we can give the kids affordable education Vote out the BOE members who dont listen to the people who are paying the bills and vote some new Blood in with them knowing work for the bill payers or you will go to
If our teachers don't accept a pay freeze, I would say vote "no" on the budget. And I agree with the last few posts. We can't have the best of everything, if we can't afford it.
These unions and school boards have been holding our children and tax payers hostage for years. Will this madness ever end!
I will be voting yes on this year's budget. I am happy with what was presented, I understand the reasons for the increases and cuts. I think the core curricullum education my youngest is receiving today is far better than what her older sister received (in the same district).
I also believe that the money that was spent of the turf field was a good move, unintentional that it was. If it had not been spent, our state aid would have been reduced even further, penny for penny. That would mean a bigger increase in taxes. Right now, each homeowner needs to look at their assessment and figure for themselves if their taxes are going to increase.
I am not jealous of teacher's getting an increase in pay. I am glad that someone in these tough times is moving forward. I got a 4% raise this year as well, but for me, it's literally pennies. My husband has not seen a raise in over 3 years, he's lucky to be working in this sluggish environment. We wonder every week if he will have a job to go to on Monday.
I am not sure if we can even call ourselves "middle class" anymore and if we are, it's by our fingernails.
I want my kids to be more, have more in the way of education and I am willing to pay for it. My parents did and theirs before and I will too. I will tighten my belt a little further, been there done it before.
Ignorance is not bliss. Get out, learn what is and not in the budget. Look at the education your kids, your neighbors kids, grandkids, whomever.....are getting today and say it's not worth it. Right now, today, there are opportunities for every child here in Warren County. It might not be at HHS but at Tech. But the opportunities ARE there. Defeating the budget might mean no freshman sports or some other co-curricular program disappearring. It might mean cutting classes out. Fewer Opportunities.
My oldest started public school in 1988, by the time my youngest graduates it will be 2016. That covers a pretty good chunk of life.
You can bash me, ridicule my stance but at least I have gone out and walked around the fence, not just guessed at what's on the other side.
There are many sides to every issue but I am clear on this one. I see the effort being made to maintain the high quality of enducation in our school.
I will be voting YES on April 20.
irish girl in Great Meadows we are voting 'NO" on this years budget.
there has been zero attempt by the BOE to reduce expenses.
they are out of control over here and must be reigned in.
More money for the teachers does not mean a better education for our children. When are people going to realize giving the teachers more money will not make them better teachers!!!
Will giving them less make them better copygirl? All I know is the latest budget is cutting back quite a bit on salaries and benefits. What's really need is to get a handle on the big $ spent on too many administrators instead of firing all the teachers.
You literally can't fire these chump Administrators. They came from being a teacher so they just return to teaching (even though their heart isn't into it -- obviously since they moved into management). Then they push down the totem pole and the lowest ranking teachers (usually non-tenured) get the "shaft", get let go. This is a game, see the details, see what is going on.
With all the fat in Administration there shouldn't be teachers in the classroom being let go. But due to the f'd up system, that's what happens.
Jay and GC, couldn't agree with you more, they have to cut at the top before hitting the bottom. How many superintendents, assistants, secretaries and whatever other title they have does one school system have. You would also think with the automation of things, secretarial positions would have been downsized a long time ago. When I started my job 20 years ago, there was a supervisor and 7 people in the accounting dept. There are now 2 of us (3 would be nice just to have an extra back up) that run the show. Why, the use of the computer and utilizing a more modern way to do things. I don't understand the need for so many chiefs and chiefs assistants in this day and age, other than they can!
Even if the admins force teachers out, isn't that still worth the $ savings? I understand it's not ideal, but I don't think that's a reason not to do it. Besides, not every admin is going to back to being in the classroom. The biggest issue is state mandated admins. Christie cuts all the $ but cuts none of the mandates. That has to be addressed as well.
Question just in Hackettstown High School
What are the job titles for that school
irish girl,
If you want your kid to play football, that's fine. I expect mine learn calculus. You want yours to get drug tested? That's okay too -- but taxpayers should not be picking up the tab. That's a personal choice and the budget still has that in it.
What might be "tightening your belt a little further" may have already been done by someone else. Some people have already gotten rid of cell phones, cable, internet, and don't have much else to cut out. What else do you want people to give up so a handful of kids can practice fencing?
This is to Copy Girl and those of you who think teachers have it so good having the summer off and Christmas Vacation. TAKE OFF FOR THE SUMMER??? IF ONLY!!! I have been a teacher/coach for 25 years and HAVE NOT had a summer off yet.
Does your mortgage company not require you to pay your mortgage from July through August? If so, fill me in and I will refinance with your company. Do you buy food and gas and pay other bills during the summer months? My summers are spent on ladders painting houses. That of course is only from 8:00 am to 3:00 pm, then I am off to football practice from 4:00 pm to 7:00 pm four nights per week from July 5th through September.
Christmas Break means wrestling practice which includes Saturdays and Sundays too. Spring Break means track practice all week including Saturday. When I calculated out the pay per hour, I get for coaching, it came to $2.27 an hour.
I know you work hard and I respect whatever you do. Please consider what a teacher/coach does for your child and community. Maybe while you are on vacation this summer, I can paint your house!
Mike
Mike L. Dolly-
You are absolutely right. I have already cut and cut and cut. In Independence I am looking at another 600.00+ increase in my taxes. We keep hearing that we need to give everything we have, so that the children can have a great education. How long am I expected to give up everything extra in my life, so that every bell and whistle can be provided in education. The union isn't willing to give up anything without a fight. For years we were told that we shouldn't even ask them to pay anything towards their medical benefits because it was a losing battle. A family policy for teachers cost the taxpayers 23,000.00 and a husband/wife policy costs 20,000.00. The teachers are complaining about paying 700.00 a year while we foot the bill for the rest. At a recent meeting, the superintendent stated that the non-union personel would be taking a pay freeze but at the same time they would be getting a raise to cover the 1.5% that they would pay for the medical. He said that they did this because they didn't want to punish the employees. Our income has been frozen for years and I pay 300.00 per month for medical insurance. I guess I'm being punished.
It makes no sense for the average taxpayer to fund benefits that are unheard of in the private sector. The best excuse they have is that it compensates for low pay; low pay maybe 20 years ago but no more. So there you go... they essentially have excessive benefits paid for by John Q Taxpayer with no just cause.
As a reminder, the Hackettstown budget is cutting 18.5 positions, including administrators, teachers, and support staff. Doesn't that count for something for the naysayers? It is a public school system. We also pay for police and the other public services of our town, county, and state. Would we decry the salaries and benefits packages of those folks?
I also have to think about the people we're talking about -- those keeping their jobs and those losing their jobs -- they, too, are paying taxes and may well be paying more taxes next year. Perhaps some of them are the primary or only breadwinners in their families -- I know a lot of teachers for whom that is the case. I know, that is their choice. And it is our choice to live here in NJ, where everyone pays pretty outrageous property taxes.
Dolly, I do appreciate what you're saying about the board members being a large part of the problem. Indeed, they are no doubt the culprits when it comes to drug testing and unfunded turf fields. However, my children actually take calculus AND play sports AND join clubs AND play instruments; they have enjoyed the academic and co-curricular aspects of their public education so far. I consider all of these important parts of their education, which have prepared them well for the world. I also make sure they get other experiences that enrich that preparation, lest you think I am leaving it all to the schools. I understand that academics are the primary purpose of the schools, but education does not only take place in the classroom. I feel certain that you know that. Why dis sports? It surprises me that you would make that kind of comment.
I happen to agree with irishgirl -- I can't really add anything. I have to support the budget.
Hopeful in H-town "Will giving them less make them better copygirl?"
You probably had less GC, if you were enrolled in a public school system. Seems to me you turned out OK and are an intelligent, productive member of society. Was it more money flowing into the school system that did that, or were there other factors influencing your success?
IMHO, using fear of having "less" is a cop-out (lol, does that surprise anyone here!). We've got some serious realities in the bigger picture, and that's something our entire society needs to deal with. It starts at home. Budget what we NEED, not what we WANT. Heck I WANT a helluva lot more than what the schools are given now!
Then get mad and take the fight to our elected officials. Let them know their crap has got to stop and make them accountable for their actions.
Jay is spot on once again -
these public employees are now paid at higher avg salaries than the private sector, and they have the old style,'Cadillac' level of health benefits that they don't pay into.
it is past time time to stop the madness.
COLA increases just to make things worse. No COLA increases for the fortunate few in my company that were grandfathered:
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:EDr8hH2LN40J:www.state.nj.us/treasury/pensions/epbam/exhibits/factsheets/fact18.pdf+nj+cola&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESge4h44gc8iYqGKjxo5tJTLjnU8ZWzQkHDLzzqoSMoKAwtZuuxE036UogOz6Pfa-x-Dzx3sUuW8LnztgHEE1wNTQvvxk_wC9O9-TCaiKJnx_tudcBDde2KtyrpqwL1vV0Pv9xVH&sig=AHIEtbSLaEz1oDCILNKLs3GSJybyzsvvIw
This is how, when they publish public sector salaries you really have to put an * next to it. Classic Shell Game, hide the truth and deny that you are hiding the truth. Keyser Soze works for the NJEA!
I know there is alot of Superintendant bashing on here about their salaries. Hackettstown's Administrators all took a pay freeze including all principals. I agree that they are well paid, but they work ALL the time. I went to see the HHS play on Friday and there were countless teachers there as well as Mr. Gratz, Mr. Sarcone and Mrs. Pittinger, and this was just who I saw. If you go to any event for the schools they are always there. They attend so many night night events I would like to see how many hours a day they work- I bet they average more than you think. We need strong leaders and they need to make a good salary. I think the budget was reasonable and very responsible to all of us. Vote YES tomorrow.
Hopeful - Don't Obama's kids go to an expensive private school and doesn't he make decisions regarding public education? So why should it be different for Christie?
"JIT - Don't pretend to know what I went through or how I turned out."
You're right, of course. I have no idea of your background, only a small glimpse of what you present here. But you asked copygirl if giving teachers less would make them any better, implying that giving them more money would. That is simply not true. In fact, the opposite is typically true (outside the realm of government, of course): higher productivity and increased performance earns someone an increase in pay. Not the other way around.
They have summers off, they better work long hours the few days they do actually work. Plus, how many 6 figure jobs are in Warren County? Give me a break!
Jay, if you're talking about the administrators that Htown fan was describing, I'm pretty sure they don't have summers off. Don't administrators work 12 months a year?
Yeah, I am sure they do a lot in the Summer -- watch the grass grow? Are they even in the office or are they working from home? It's LaLa land. When you look all around and see slacking, then you slack too.
Mike - Do you get paid for that painting job in the summer? I'm sure you're not doing it for free. How many taxpayers do you think are working two jobs all year long to be able to keep up with their property taxes which in NJ are the highest in the country? But speaking of free how about all the parents who coach their kids teams for free? How about all the parents who work for the booster clubs for the teams you coach and provide those teams with the additional funds you as the coach request. It goes both ways Mike.
Most administrators work 12 months a year. Are the summer months a little lighter as far as the work load? Yes, but they're not sitting around watching grass grow. They are hiring new staff, overseeing facility maintainance projects, writing grants, revising curriculum, attending meetings, filing state required reports, etc, etc. During the school year, there are many days where they are the first one in the building and the last to leave, not at 3pm but at 9pm. In many small towns like ours, they oversee the largest transportation system, the largest "restaurant" (how many kids does your school's cafeteria feed?), and the largest employment force in town. They have to answer to the school board (who is NOT always on their side), parents, taxpayers, the union, the staff, and the state. Administrators earn their money. And when the school experiences a success, like higher test scores, greater graduation rate, awards for academics or sports achievement do administrators earn a bonus (or do teachers)? No.
We are all unhappy about paying taxes, but our high taxes are not the fault of an individual adminstrator. They are not the fault of an individual teacher. And while there are some administrators and teachers who don't work as hard as they should or are overpaid, most administrators and teachers are honestly working in a profession they love and earning money to take care of their families and pay their own high taxes. Our taxes in NJ won't be fixed by cutting school budgets to the point where it jeopardizes our children's education. It is much more complicated than that.
eapos 
youngnfresh A big vote NO today for Hackettstown!!!! Still havn't heard a word yet from the teachers or their Union about their making a sacrifice.
Don't the admins still get at least a month's worth of vacation they can take in the summer? Besides, vacationing (paid for by the tax payer) is a human right. Didn't you know? ;)
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/travel/news/Vacationing+human+right+chief+says/2924330/story.html
"Our taxes in NJ won't be fixed by cutting school budgets to the point where it jeopardizes our children's education."
Again, I will ask how do you know? (funny how no one seems to want to answer that question) Less can be more, and often times is! Don't let the fear of fiscal responsibility let you think that more money is always and forever the answer to educating our kids!
The problem is always one of emotional attachment to the idea that more pay equals better education. That is simply not true, overwhelmingly proven by the excesses put into the system under the Abott ruling and the limited results gained.
We have a great school district with some really great teachers. I don't know anyone who disagrees with that, and I'm sure that no one wants to see them lose their jobs. But as I've alluded to in other posts, our economy is kinda in the sh*tbox today and the only way to fix it is to buckle our belts. What I find disheartening is the fact that highly paid employees are not on the chopping block - administrators and the like. That is where the biggest bang for the buck is, yet since sh*t always rolls down hill the cuts fall to the teachers (where ALL of the IMPORTANT work is done). Sickening, really.
"the idea that more pay equals better education."
meant to say:
...the idea that more MONEY equals better education.
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