Christie Speech
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/03/text_of_gov_chris_christie_bud.html
No surprise that I agree with all of it, and I am not a Republican (or Democrat for that matter). I especially like the proposition 2 1/2 to cap annual property tax increase to 2 1/2. Quote "In 1980, the voters in Massachusetts adopted a similar proposition, and the results were striking. While in 1977 Massachusetts had the 3rd highest property tax burden, by 2005 it had dropped to 33rd place.
Some will say this will affect the quality of children’s education. This is absolutely wrong. Massachusetts has accomplished this astonishing drop in property taxes while maintaining the #1 k-12 achievement in America."
A lot of other good stuff that I won't post (too much), just read the full text per the link above.
Jay 
The thing to understand with MA is that they did away with County government - there is only the State and municipalities. In order for NJ to lower it's property taxes they must do the same. It makes no sense to have three bureaucracies with their bloated administrative costs when the work can be done with less. But NJ and the state and county and municipal workers are so entrenched I really don't see County government going away anytime soon.
BLDI'm not a big Chris Christie fan, but it's about time someone took a stand to reduce our reckless government spending. It is time that all New Jerseyans recognize the fiscal mess we are in from the failed policies of past administrations representing both sides of the aisle. It is time to curb the pension abuse that runs rampant across our state. It is time to curb the abuse and scare tactics of the public and private sector unions. It is time to get back to basics and eliminate the waste in our system. We all need to stand up and shout from the rooftops...."ENOUGH". I'm all for turning the state upside down if it means a better future for us and our children. Let's revamp the way we fund education in this state. Let's mandate consolidation of local and county government to reduce expenses. We need to force accountablility at all levels of government and send a clear and concise message, "fix it...or get out and let some else do the job".
I will now step down from my soap box.
Calico696 madinmansfield...... hope ya threw away the Corzine button & thanks for getting on board the Christy (dare I say it) freight train...LOL
Sorry, I will get outa the cheep shot mode.
Begin Again Finnigan Some unkind words for the NJEA...
"The leaders of the union who represent these teachers, however, have used their political muscle to set up two classes of citizens in New Jersey: those who enjoy rich public benefits and those who pay for them. That has created a system that cannot be sustained – a system fueled by mandatory dues of more than $700 a year taken out of every one of the nearly 200,000 teachers’ paychecks.
Political muscle fueled by intimidation tactics, political bullying and smears of public officials who dare to disagree. This conduct has set up an unfair system. Is it fair to have any public employees getting 4-5% salary increases every year, even when inflation is zero %, paid for by citizens struggling to survive? It is fair to have New Jersey taxpayers foot the bill for 100% of the health insurance costs of teachers and their families from the day they are hired until the day they die? Is it fair that teachers have a better, richer health plan than even state workers and pay absolutely nothing for it?
I believe rank and file teachers know this is not fair and that we can no longer afford to burden our taxpayers with these costs and runaway taxes. The union bosses will tell you, as they always have each time their empire is threatened, that they are protecting our children. This tired song has grown old and inaccurate. Is the way our children learn affected by whether the union gets free family health insurance for life for its members? Does a child learn more if the union gets 5% taxpayer funded raises every year for its members? This is nonsensical and self-serving – and we all know it.
Just how arrogant has the union gotten? By refusing to accept merit pay and use it to reward their best members, the union may have cost New Jersey $400 million in race to the top school aid from Washington. They did this in a year when they complain about budget cuts; in a year when we could truly use the money. Ask yourself, just who is putting their personal interests ahead of our children’s?
My proposal is simple: school district employees should pay for a reasonable portion of their health care costs, just like every other New Jerseyan. If we do not end this dual system, state and local government will have to raise taxes endlessly to pay for it. Teachers are not the problem, they get it. Trenton special interests are the problem and we must stand up to them."
Greg Just as a side note, I've spoken to many teachers - conincidentally they're of the younger generations - that are more than willing to contribute to benefits and be more "humane" in negotiations. It's the old guard that are set in their ways that don't want their precious gravy train derailed.
btownguy Give them 100% for them selfs on health care with a co-pay and a group plan rate for their family payed by them selfs .
and if the people pf the school district defeat the buget the state cant jump in .
And the school board cant force the district to aprove the budget
Tenure has to become a thing of the past.
Plus i dont think persons over 70 should have to pay school taxes . and that people who have children in the school system should pay a surcharge per child in the school system
CagedAnimal First of all teachers do contribute to a portion of their healthcare. Secondly doing away with tenure leaves teachers who continue there education and achieve a more desirable salary exposed and on the chopping block. Tenure does not guarantee that one may not be fired. It just makes it harder to be fired, with more tape to get through. If you get rid of tenure and there is a budget issue the first ones to go are the top of the salary guide. That represents your most qualified and experienced teachers. I'd rather keep the most qualified in the classroom for my kids.
Fatboy Christie is talking about huge cuts in education so he can give a tax break to those families making 400,000 or more, what about those making under 60,000? No contribution to the pension this year either. Interesting how the fiscal failures of NJ fall on the shoulders on the educators. I'd like to know if Fatboy is still getting a pension contribution this year?
mondrafi There was mention of about $700 union dues paid by each of the 200k members of the union. A lot of money, and where does the money originate from -- the Taxpayers. And, what do the members expect for their $700? Obviously, it is not about the children; but rather a small payment to keep the excessive perks around -- free/near free medical care, pensions, pay increases when salaries have plateaued in the private sector.
Any comments Matt (and if you do, please don't sound like a cheap broken record)?
Mondrafi,
Nice post, you seem to be the exact type of person we are trying to protect ourselves from. You say teachers with Tenure are protected from the chopping block, wake up and learn what it is like to be a normal employee. We are all on the chopping block, all the time. If you don't perform you are at risk, that makes sense to me. How many teachers with tenure have you ever seen fired? Have you seen the NY "rubber" rooms where teachers sit all day and do nothing and get paid, sometimes for years, because they are not fit to be in a classroom but are "tenured".
Tax cuts for the rich that makes sense to me also because the rich are the ones paying 90+% of the taxes, why shouldn't they get a cut. I would not consider myself rich by any means but with all taxes and payments combined I now pay more then 50% of my earning to some government agency. I have NEVER received a property rebate, although my property taxes have quadrupled, and I am tired of giving my money away.. Thats right I said my money that I earn to support my family... Get out of my pocket, I think many hard working people from the middle class to the rich are tired of this never ending seizure of wealth. Wake up, I want to get America back to being the land of opportunity and NOT the land of the outstretched hand.
Mark
mark I think everyone should contribute to their health care benefits. Teachers who work many hours a week, town council members who work many hours a year, everyone.
Mondraft - Please tell us in which district teachers pay a portion of their healthcare premium. Also, are you aware that NJ is an employment at will state? That means that for anyone who works a non-union job any hiring is presumed to be "at will"; that is, the employer is free to discharge individuals "for good cause, or bad cause, or no cause at all." Thus the people who pay teacher's salaries and "who continue there, (sp) education and achieve a more desirable salary" are"exposed and on the chopping block". In the private sector during this economic downturn when "there is a budget issue the first ones to go are the top of the salary guide". So why should the teachers be any different from the people who pay their salaries?
Massachusetts is a Commonwealth were people and local towns have more power then the county government ever did and the state governement. Hence the "In 1980, the voters in Massachusetts adopted a similar proposition" It wasn't shoved down their throats by a Governor. And they get to elect thier own judges.
I am also still trying to find out when the public servant became the public enemy.
People soon forget that the Civil Service jobs were not like those in the private sector. The pay wasn't that great and neither were the benifits or protection. When the Civil Service jobs started making head way with Unions and better beinfits the private sector started paying more at the top and cutting from the bottom. When that happens you will see a collaps in the system. Just like what you see now. Pure greed! The CEO's and others at the top are still getting big bonuses while people at the bottom are being cut. Jobs being moved to China. The cost of health care has gone up but salleries remain on a slower increase or held where they are. The top dosn't see the change in their fat wallets but the little guy does.
So why don't the people rise up and bash the private sector for not holding up it's end of the bargan?
If the private sector wasn't trying to cut corners, the civil service sector wouldn't be at the top of everyones watch list. Just go back and look in any history book. They glamorize the advances in the Private sector and nothing is every said about the Civil Service sector.
CJ This "Tax cut for the rich" does anybody have a full understanding of what this entails?
It is my understanding that it is a "1-year surcharge" put in by Corzine and was never ment to go more than a year. It is a 9.5% surcharge on the money over $400.000.
Remember, now it is up to us, the tax payers and VOTERS to demand change. We have been led to believe all these years that that tax increases were a given living in NJ. We are seeing that this gravy train for School Admin. (not teachers) can be derailed.
Greg Good Post Mark....you represent most of the working class that is getting squeezed out. Bravo!!
To my surprise, Christie is going EVEN MORE conservative than I expected. And in this state, it is absolutely neccesary. Just as it was in NYC when Guliani took over.
Not happy about getting rid of the property tax write-off, however I understand cuts have to be made across the board, no one can be immune from the cuts. Everyone will have to sacrifice in one way or another. The NJ "hole" is just too big to get it done any other way.
Each and everyone has their own spin - spinning out of control over supposedly stopping out of control. So far not a single thing has happened. There's far more power in the legislature than Christie. There are interesting things he said, and then there are some ridiculous things. Any talk about schools without mentioning Abbott is going to be no help. But it will do no good to do away with that for all the right reasons and go to everyone's on their own so only the richest rich make out. The problem is still real, it's just the current solution is no solution.
I'll be happier when I see real proposals, and they really go somewhere. I can't see Christie being behind anything like cutting County government - he's got a *huge* power base there. Besides the fact that County government may actually be the better alternative if you want to kill off one of local or county. Banding together for reduced costs is a good thing, but there's still the need for control closer to the local resident. But that's hugely unpopular, and prone to real small district in-fighting. Look at Victory Gardens or Boonton Tsp in Morris Co.
Still need someone out side the box, we need value based government. It keeps going back and forth between one set of ideology that doesn't work so we see the need for change, only to use that as an excuse to insert a different ideology. I don't mind government spending if it provides value. But the parties are all about "them" instead of issues and solutions.
"I don't mind government spending if it provides value. "
Even if there is no money available to spend?
justintime Thats a good one CJ but it should only aply to new hired persons that they must live in NJ
"I don't mind government spending if it provides value. " ???
How about if you are taxed at 100% your net income? Still value in this...
My statement was about what government spends their money on. Not necessarily how much, and the choices in funding. I'm not saying there aren't lots of things that need to be done tomorrow instead of today because it's not enough of a priority compared to other expenditures. But whether it's done today or tomorrow wasn't my issue - if it doesn't have value then it should never be done at all. Ensuring responsibility on the revenue side of the equation is another important matter, just not one I was commenting on.
When I lived in Pa alot of towns started making it manditory for employees to live in the town they worked in. After some long time employees were fired because they didn't meet that requirement by the given deadline they sued in federal court. The outcome.
They still lost their jobs and the town was allowed to make a radious requirement not a with-in city limits requirement for old employees. So they made it so that current employees had to live with in 5 miles of the city limits. New employees had to live with in city limits and maintain that. Those that got fired had 6 months to to be rehired once they made the chance. None of them did and they lost their jobs.
The City of Wilkes-Barre and City of Scranton both went throught it and won.
And Caged animal those civil service jobs that the people in NJ were hired for had to live in NJ to get them. They should have maintained it. If they sold or moved they should be forced to move back. Keep your tax money here.
I think Gov. Christie did a great job yesterday with his speech. The 2.5 cap would go a long way to make N.J. more affordable. In our district, the school tax levy has grown from 4,868,117 to 11,514,907 in 15 years. Thats an increase of 137% and averages out to over 9% per year. I hope he can get the support he needs to make this a reality for us.
Indy2 
quoted form above
"I am also still trying to find out when the public servant became the public enemy."
they became the enemy when they started lording it over us, like we owe them more.
they became the enemy (like the NJEA) when they started telling us they know more about how to educate our children than we do.
That's when.
Mark I worked as a "normal employee" and when i was with those companies the new employees were always first to go. They honored seniority, however being that teachers are paid via taxes and are under control of the board of ed.(regular citizens) it would put those teachers at the top of the salary guide in the greatest jeopardy. In the world of academia this is not what you want, you want seasoned veterans in the classroom. The loss of finances is with Administration, it is very top heavy, but under Christies plan and according to you, you'd rather hurt the teachers, who make a modest living considering the advance levels of education that most have obtained. So you think teachers have their hand outstretched??? My district contributes to it's healthcare( although not a huge amount) we still contribute. We stay 2 days a week for extra help and 1 day through lunch per week. I lesson plan and grade every night until 10 pm. Sunday's are dedicated to lesson plans. I'm in the building by 7 and leave at 4:45. I write and call colleges for at least 20 kids a year. Outstretched hand? You have no idea. America is lacking because education has become secondary in this country. And there are too many parents at home devaluing the job our teachers do. And now lucky for NJ we have a governor that will do the same. When your kids scores drop don't be on here bitchin.
I agree spending is out of control but Christie is telling the schools they have to do with a half a million plus. How do you cut that much in ONE year and still educate the children. There are schools that are NOT top heavy. They have one superintendent one principal and a part time business admin. NO directors, NO person in charge of curriculum, NO person in charge of discipline. So it gets down to cutting teachers. Well if a teacher makes 50,000 a year then that is 10 teachers. Class size would go up way too high or cut out every extra curricular sport. or art or music EVERYTHING. Think about that. I do agree something has to be done but not that kind of cut
If the 2.5% cap is implemented a town could still go over this amount through "banking" which is ok (any annual increase under 2.5% can be "socked" away to use later) and public referendum -- vote. The later would empower the people of a town. An example would be the 600k turf field, if it occurred under this plan it might have forced a town vote; then the majority would win. Not a perfect solution but there never is. This is where Christie mentioned that he was empowering the people. Definitely better than the lack of transparency right now...
"My statement was about what government spends their money on."
Correction: "our" money. It's a minor point, I know, but I have to ask why is it expected that the government can "fix" every problem when it has been proven over and over and over again that government can't fix anything? In fact, over time, it's been proven that governments only make problems worse! The only thing a government does well is redistribution: taking money from one group and giving it to another.
So if we are willing to *give*, ahem, so much money to the government, why not send it into a competitive arena instead and truly get the "value" we seek?
mondrafi -
"Fatboy Christie is talking about huge cuts in education so he can give a tax break to those families making 400,000 or more, what about those making under 60,000?"
how much do you weigh? do we get to call you fat?
there is so much wrong with your poisitions, i don't even know where to start!
the 2.5 rule will give a tax break to every taxpayer in te state regardless of income.
keeping high earners in the staet actually increases the tax revenues. need to compete with other states so that the high income people are motivatied to stay here in NJ. you motivate them to stay by taxing them les than other states. (btw, lots of NJ teachers live in PA because of the tax difference)
We already have the highest taxes in the entire nation!
How much more do you expect us to pay? and for what, a bunch of whining, selfish moaners, complianer and slackers?!?! I have had enough of this nonsense!
Are you a teacher, or married to a teacher? Because you sound like you are completely out of touch with what is going on. (just like the apologists for the NJEA)
11 billion dollars in red ink. cannot be allowed to happen.
have to make cuts, lots of them, and very deep
wake up and smell the coffee
People Keep forgetting it isn't that cheep to live in PA anymore.
You will always have the 1% income tax to add to your property tax.
Some Cities take more then 1%
Aww forget it......they will have ample time to absorb soon enough Brother.
JIT....keep going. I am listening.
But pension income is tax exempt in PA so retired teachers and state workers with great pensions like to live there and just come across the bridge to visit the peons who are paying for those pensions.
I am afraid I have to take umbrage with a few of you!! First of all, I am a retired teacher and I voted for Chris Christie. I basically joined the teachers union to protect myself in case of a lawsuit - some crazy people out there!!After 36 years of feeling kind of "lonely" (about six friends at work were on the same page politically speaking), I retired out of frustration and gave up fighting my liberal counterparts. They have ruined education as far as I am concerned. All children are not the same, whether in the classroom, on the playing field or in the areas of theatre and entertainment. Different people have different talents and had better learn to deal with frustration and failure , pick themselves up and get on with life. Giving EVERYONE a trophy, ribbon or some sort of UNEARNED accolade is a lie. A child (person) knows when they do and do not deserve an award. Many earn them and do not get recognized and many get them but did not earn them - bogus!! More money is not the answer!
I think that teachers WERE underpaid thirty years ago, that is why they paid our insurance. Now, all things being equal, a contribution makes sense.
The real waste in education comes from inept people at the top and , more often than not, too many people at the top. The corker to me is all the "leaders" in Independence. Also, why in the world do you need a principal and vice-prin. in an elem. school? There are no discipline problems to speak of (Hatch. and Willow, not the middle., they need people by middle school).
A prime example of waste is my personal experience. My insurance was being DOUBLE paid for three years!! I called the business office twice and went there once to tell them that I was still being covered under the active teachers insurance at the same time I was being covered on the retired teachers plan. They did not believe me! I called BC/BS and they told me they could not drop me on my say so if they were being paid. They called the office and FINALLY, I was dropped. What a waste of at least $ 21,000.00 (my guestimate of the payments). I could have kept my mouth shut and used both insurance policies but that would have been dishonest.
Also, I hope the person that keeps referring to Mr. Christie as "fatboy" is not a teacher - talk about rude and disrespectful - I am sure it comes across in the classroom in one form or another. Possibly you don't "call on" the heavier students? Lord, I hope not!!
frustrated JIT- "The only thing a government does well is redistribution." So you want to stop driving your car? You'll have to stop using those roads if government only does redistribution. Speaking of money, you can give that up as well and go to barter only since a single currently doesn't fall into "redistribution". And national defense?? Count that out as well, Constitution or not, because it's not "redistribution".
Let's be realistic. You can try to ideologically talk about no government, but there's a huge difference between a smaller better government and no government at all. Over exaggeration gets labeled as unworthy and no one listens.
So how do you tell what to do and what not to do? I think I mentioned the word before, it's *not* a matter of big vs. small, infact it leads to small unless your head is in some adversarial context to begin with...
CJ - I not one of those people. I own a home there, I shop there all the time, I know from personal experience. Cities nothing, there's a whole additional county income tax let alone property tax there.
Yea & by looking at him, he has enough breath for NJ, NY & a few more to spare!
But seriously folks......He has the chops to do the job. (insert your own joke here)
Gov. Christie is the 1st politician to have the guts to call it as it is and take action immediately. We all need to tighten our belts and hope he can make a difference. Obama and the congress should be doing the same thing - stop the spending.
copygirl I agree with B A F and Copygirl - it will curb some spending on some people but it has to start NOW !
Can anyone answer me this question?? The governor has proposed a 2.5% cap on an increase in property taxes, however, I read in the paper that the school districts are requesting waivers to go above the cap on the school budgets. Who do you think will have to absorb that?? The taxpayer- and that will put some taxes above the 2.5% How that that possibly be?? I must be missing something. Can anyone with accurate knowledge on the subject help me?
Everyone must sacrifice, except millionaires. But at least the poorest New Jersey citizen's will be able to camp in the parks. And to think, I did not vote for this guy.
What is more painful for those in education, to loose staff, compensation, benefits... or to just tax the public more? Of course they will choose to tax the public more if they can get away with it. Yes, they will pay more too, but for the extra taxes they (public workers) get direct benefits that easily justify a (for instance) 5% property tax increase. Say your an educator and you pay $7500 in property taxes. A 5% increase would be $375. Considering many of these fools pay about $700 annually to their union, this $375 is a small price to pay to continue the status quo.
In summary, educators will be pushing for hefty tax increases. We have seen our own local educator follow this logic on this very forum...
Amy,
The 2.5 percent cap has not been signed into law yet. The governor wants the legislature to do two things. The first is to enact a bill making the 2.5 cap effective now. The second is to make the 2.5 cap a constitutional amendment that the voters would vote on in Nov.
In the bills that he has suggested, the districts would still have the ability to ask for more than the 2.5% and the voters would then have the option of voting yes or no to the extra amount. If the 2.5 cap is made into law, the disticts would need to cut expenses and the taxpayers would not have to absorb the out of control increases that we currently do have to absorb. One of the problems the governor is trying to address is the never ending increases of 4-6% in teachers salaries. If the 2.5 cap is law, then the salary increases would be limited. I know many people in the private sector that have not had an increase in many years. One friend has had to take a week of furlough every quarter.
She has had to live without a months worth of paychecks each year.
Tenure reform - I find it interesting that 80% of teachers in this state have tenure - http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/states_increasingly_take_aim_a.html
I would just like to commend "frustrated", on their position and morals. I hope my children experienced your teaching skills. You sound like a reasonable person and I bet you were a good educator. Everyone is going to have to experience hard times, we got ourselves into this mess and teachers retirement packages are just not sustainable. Unions were needed terribly during a period of time, but as usual, they also took advantage and went hog wild, greed took over. Life is about to get tougher!!!
GC, I have never said, not once, that I am an anarchist or that I want zero government, so attempting to paint me that way is misleading. Just because I look at more than the immediate problem and actually consider the consequences of our legislators actions doesn't make me anti government. No, what makes me anti government are the unrealistic choices our representatives make that have very real *long term* consequences that affect us ALL, not just the group that happens to be lobbying for the perk of the day. IMHO, our "Great Society" isn't that great if it is bankrupting this country. It may feel great for a while if one can partake of the gifts, but when the time comes to pay the bill what will happen then? Where will the money come from?
But I guess you're right though - big picture, long term thoughts have no place on a forum such as this because people generally don't think long term. Human nature dictates that short term thinking and immediate gratification rule the day. Which is the way it should be I suppose, because life is the here and now. We'll all be dead when the time comes for our kids to deal with the crap we left them so who cares.
JIT - You misunderstood me. I was specifically saying I don't believe you're an anarchist. And therefore sometimes I need to figure there's a bit of exaggerating going on. When I hear something like there's one and only one thing governments are good at... Then I have to figure there really are some other things.
GC, perhaps I wasn't clear enough either. *Everything* the government does can only happen through the taking of wealth from one group to give to another because, like I said, the government has no money of it's own. Sometimes that redistribution produces things beneficial for our entire society (such as roads, which is what should happen) while in other cases it is used to give benefits to smaller groups that have no business taking money from the public (such as most industry subsidies, which is bad IMHO). Thus my statement that the only thing the government does *well* is redistribute money from one group to another because that is it's primary function.
Sorry I didnt feel like reading all of this. So do you all agree with the INSANE amount of teacher cuts? Do you realize how large class sizes are going to be? Do you realize that students with special needs are going to suffer? Do you think that cutting afterschool sports is a good thing? What do you think kids are going to be doing after school if they don't have extra curricular activities such as sports? Do you think crime rates and drug and alcohol use will go up? Please feel free to answer any of these questions because I think all of this should be a concern.
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