Our Recreation/Sport Program
I am so disappointed in our recreation/sport program for our kids! It's a shame that we don't start basketball until 3rd grade when other surrounding towns start in 1st grade. Then when Htown kids play against these kids, there is a HUGE difference in their skills b/c they have already been playing for 2 years. We all go to the same high school and what's a shame is that a lot of Hackettstown kids won't make high school teams b/c of their inexperience. The same goes for our baseball program....t-ball right to kid pitch?!?!?! And the age differences on the teams....AMAZING!!!! Some of our kids don't stand a chance come high school try out time...
Are you kidding me? Your saying that 6-7 yrs old can develop skills better then a 8-10 yr old? HAHAHA!
LOL... you think that kids who play basketball in 1st grade have some kind of advantage at the high school level over kids who don't start playing organized ball until 3rd grade? I would think that they have an advantage at the 3rd grade level, certainly, but that advantage will have been long overcome by individual talent before the high school years.
I'm not saying that there isn't a difference in the programs that doesn't give kids from the sending districts better instruction and coaching, but to claim that it stems from a two-year period where kids are barely strong enough to heave a ball as high as the basket is ridiculous. I think 3rd grade is a realistic age to start organized kids sports. Let 6-year olds play on the playground without regimented instruction.
Atleast if they start in 1st/2nd grade they can get the basic skills and some fundamentals, yeah their attention span isn't there, but have a clinic or something for them. Football starts in Kindergarten!! You may not agree but you can see a difference in watching Htown 3rd graders play against Independence 3rd graders (boys & girls)!!!!
HOLY CRAP......not make HS the team????? Worse than getting boiled in oil....LOL
Sorry, but there are so many more important things to teach children IMO.
I just had a discussion with someone recently about this same subject. I agree with Disappointed.
It might not have anything to do with playing in HS, but there is a difference in skill levels with children who start sports earlier.
read this book..
"Until it hurts"
talks about things like parents suing their youth team coaches for not coaching well enough so their kid could get a sports scholarship....and more.
Maybe is time to sue the gov for not starting early enough...therefore students are not good at HS sports....
I didn't get from these comments that we want to make our "kids winners" until it hurts them. They are just comments about sports' programs.
Although I disagree with Disappointed in the fact that I don't think the difference from 1st grade to 3rd grade matters, I do feel the sports programs (other than football) in Hackettstown are not up to par with surrounding areas, unless you join the private traveling club.
For example the recreational baseball/softball and basketball program definitly differ from Hackettstown to Independence, or from Hackettstown to Liberty, etc...most of the surrounding towns are in a competitive league, whereas the hackettstown league seems to be merely recreational, which although can be nice for the kid who just wants to get out, but does not teach the same skills and is not at the same level as some of the other towns.
I agree there will be a difference at the 3rd grade level but by HS (like ian said) that difference is long gone. School sports have been WAY too serious these days. I'm as big a sports fan as you'll ever find but i know where to draw the line between fun and what's important and while i hope my kids are big on playing and watching sports, i plan on teaching them the difference too.
I believe that the AD at the HHS has been made aware of this and is being very proactive in this matter. One thing for sure now that the new Rec Commish has had a few months to get a good insight as to what is going on, she realizes that H'town had antiquated programs and along with the rec board input on revamping some of the ways things were handled. There is hope that things will change for a positive - providing structured training for volunteer coaches is the best place to start I believe. It is wonderful that some parents/guardians do step up and coach teams when many do not. However, if you are going to coach then you should have structured support from the recreation dept and appropriate training from qualified individuals i.e. HS coaches.
There is a new superintendant of Hackettstown Recreation. Her name is Debbie Armeno and she can be contacted at firstname.lastname@example.org.
Nelson Hoyt held the position since 1967, and was quite set in his ways... Debbie came on board this summer, went through the fall sports season, and is now experiencing her first winter sports season.
There have been some changes from past years with basketball (ie playing some games in Independence, this year), but you can't expect miracles overnight... imagine you took a job from a person who retired after 40+ years of service.. you probably would have to assume that things were pretty stable coming in (or he wouldn't have been there so long).
I know for sure that Debbie is getting feedback and suggestions to improve the rec. programs, but I'm sure that she'd appreciate direct feedback from everyone, instead of just complaining on a forum.
Regarding the starting age issue... I think you'll see that local organizations that have been allowed to run rec programs by the rec committee (Tiger Wrestling Club, Hackettstown Soccer Club, TSA, etc) , do start in kindergarten (some pre-K kids too), and also train their coaches to prepare the kids better than most of the rec run sports. Basketball, though is tough in Hackettstown because of the limited facilities.... knock down the incomplete "new Hackettstown mall" and make a rec center !!
Let's be positive and hopeful that Debbie is supported and can make positive changes to the programs in Hackettstown
When relocating from anywhere to htown - the backwards rec program was somewhat shocking, BUT as tiger fan noted - positive change is in the AIR. It will take a while.
There are plenty of people who would love to coach - it seems that the same folks coach the same rec teams. It would be nice to see a lottery - and even playing ground for all rec teams...
I hope that the new Rec Comm is open to progressive ideas....
Well we should get the kids on Pre-School teams then they will be ready for the big game sooner
Also in H'town Rec if you teach the kids the fundamentals of the game, and your teams are successful, then you get the bad rap of cheating. Also H'town boys little league is not an official LL, because they are not registered. The towns that have good ( or up to date programs) charge a lot more than H'town for the kids to sign up. But with new blood in charge, things may turn for the better. Rec teams these days are not important in the development of High School teams, travel teams is where its at these days
BTW, Disappointed- Michael Jordan was cut from his High School basketball team
Organized sports are not necessarily the answer to everything.
Physical activity is great though, like bike riding, skate boarding, skating, walking, running, dancing. Even regular playground activities. There are plenty of "athletic" things for kids to do besides team sports which does not include couches, snacks and video games.
I wonder if any kids read books anymore?
I see sarcastic remarks regarding this subject and it really irks me. why is it wrong to want to have a child be instructed and play competitive sports well? Is it any different than people who take their children to Art or Music classes to develop those skills? Many adults with children participating in sports realize it is rare to have a superstar or college scholarship eligible student athlete. If you are refering to the "big game" as in life - then a child who takes instruction well receives positive reinforcement & constructive critisism from coaches along with the comradery sports provide you are correct it is getting them ready for the big game. Little Johnny doesn't have to get a trophy for participation just because you paid $ 5.00 for a T shirt and you get to dump your kid off for 2 hours a few days a week.
Hopeless - are you saying that without an actual rec program provided by the town that kids have nothing to do? What is wrong with just playing? Parents playing with their kids, that's a novel idea!! If it is that bad get them into an organized activity like ice skating, martial arts, or gymboree. Do you really believe it is the town's job to keep kids active? I always thought that was my job as a parent!
Oh my goodness. Does it really matter AT ALL if kids aren't "competitive" in the 3rd grade? What does that mean, anyway? I think that's very, very sad.
And to think that a kid starting in 3rd grade has a better chance of making a HS team than a kid who started in first grade is just the silliest thing I've ever, ever heard.
How about letting 5 and 6 year olds be 5 and 6 year olds? If you're all that concerned about your little tot, take him out in the backyard and play a game of catch with him. Put up a little net along side your driveway and play with him.
The time a little huy or girl spends playing with mommy or daddy will be FAR FAR FAR more valuable to his/her development than playing organized sports when they're just too young for it.
Umm, as parents can't you teach your own kids some basic skills prior to their entering organized sports? It's not that hard, really, to spend some time with your child teaching them the things that YOU feel are important.
Really, you don't need organized sports at age 3 to get the basics down.
Oh, and it's all the government's fault, lol ;)
As a former licensed recreation and travel soccer coach, I think it is wonderful for the kids to have a place where they can have fun and meet and interact with other children their own age. I had kids who were naturally talented and kids who just loved to play but weren't necessarily the best player on the team. I myself didn't start playing soccer until I was 6 when all of the other kids in the neighborhood started at 4 or 5. I was a little behind but it didn't stop me from wanting to play. I enjoyed playing for 12 years both rec and travel. I was able to see other states through the sport and I have wonderful parents who supported me through it all. I encourage parents to teach their children different sports but do it responsibly. Go to the library or book store and pick up a book on the sport your child enjoys and learn the basic rules of that particular game. By doing that you are teaching your children the proper way to play and they will be ahead of the game when they are able to play on an organized team.
You mean WE are supposed to raise our children? Then what are coaches & teachers for???
Seems to me (and many of you) that parents just don't want to do their job any more. Kids these days are so over-loaded with activities that they don't have time to just be kids.
Pick 1 or 2, 3 at most. Not all of the above!
I have grown up un this town and participated in rec sports and now have kids involved in rec sports in this town. Back then rec was fine, now not so much. H'town needs to at least be structured the same way as our surrounding towns . As a parent involved in football, baskettball, baseball and at one time wrestling our kids want more. My one son is very athletic in all the sports that he plays (3) and has now moved on to travel teams. He has learned so much from playing with kids from Inndependence and Allamuchy because they have better rec programs from the early ages. The difference is amazing. To those who have made comments about parents not spending time/playing with our kids shame on you to judge. I and many people I know have straight A students and when the weather isn't so cold they are outside PLAYING everyday. The fact is Hackettstown needs stronger programs even if the fee goes up from $5.00. There are more kids and parents who agree than disagree with a better program and they should start in Kindergarden.As far as the new rec directer I spoke with her twice since June and was yelled at both times. I just wanted to know what team my son was on because bball practice had started and we had no phone call. I was yelled at over the phone and she was quite nasty and I was dissappointed so far. I am sure she is stressed but it is no way to treat people. She came to this town last spring and was boasting of making changes to the rec teams and made quite a few promises to a lot of people and I have only seen utter confusion at the fields in the spring and on the bball courts. And it is true that H'town kids have a harder time making the hhs sport teams because of the lack of expierience not athletisism.
So b/c other school districts offer some recreation sports at a younger age and I wouldn't mind my children starting earlier, I'm a horrible parent who doesn't want to raise them or I expect teachers & coaches do it for me???? I don't think so, especially since my husband and I are both fully involved with our children's activities, from their school work, sporting events and church functions!!! My opinion may be different from yours on sports but to judge me as a person or a parent is a little extreme and insulting to be honest, especially when you don't know me.
I completely agree with disappointed!!!
I had to laugh when I read this thread, then went back to the main menu and saw this as a topic: 3 Year Old Dance. I AM NOT saying momof3yearold is wrong, my comment is more on the topic, when when thread ask about young kids playing sports it a big debate. An another thread asks about a young kid in dancing class its all positive feedback. Just mad me chuckle
hmmmmm......well being a bz Mom and also coaching rec sports...(I guess Miss Lori that crumbles your opinion) MY HUSBAND AND I DO SPEND TIME WITH OUR CHILDREN AND I AM VERY INVOLVED IN SCHOO....FINDING MYSELF TENDING TO OTHERS CHILDREN AS WELL ~ BOO YA!
Anyway you can't ass u me that someone does not spend time with their kids....I agree with disappointed...being social is fun for children. A good balance is important and so is excercise and getting to know other children in your community! I think it or REC PROGRAM is not well orginized. My expierence ~ Walking in to the center to enroll your children to someone on a personal phone call while your waiting. Does she realize we pay her salary? Perhaps she should focus more on our children which is our future ~ rather then discussing her personnal business and front a room full of people. Anyway not here to JUDGE just post my opionion...
Ges your really Disappointed now huh. You didnt ask about the preschool rubgy program I noticed. LOL just kidding.
The rec. committee meets the first and third monday of the month at 7:45 at the comunity center, please come out and voice your thoughts in person. As a member of the rec commission I do feel there is need for improvment, the problem is we are talking recreation sports and no kids should be left out. The rec program needs to be for all the kids regardless of there athletic abilitys. I do feel we should make our programs more like the Independence program to give our kids a fair playing field, but I also feel that travel teams are where the better kids and athletes will hone there skills to be high school players. I have heard for years that the recreation program is not a feeder program for the high school, I feel this is not true it is a feeder program other wise where do the kids come from? our programs of course. I think with everyone being open to change and progress we can work things out for the better of our kids and thats what this should be all about. We are in discussions right now about making a league for baseball to start with and aligning with Independence,Allamuchy and Liberty but we need to work things out. How do most of you feel about traveling to play between these towns? Maybe having to pay a little more then five dollars? Changing to coach pitch for the little guys? these are all things being talked about.
Earnhardt, I coudn't agree more with you. I would love to see improvements and changes in our recreation program and would be willing to pay more than $5 at sign ups. Getting the kids together at a young age to play from different towns only benefits them in the long run when they all meet up in high school. My sons have made friends through football that they don't go to school with, but eventually will.
Kids that have never played the sport playing against kids that have for two years of experience, would be more likely to quit/drop the sport...IMHO.
There's a big, big difference between dance and athletics. Dance is not competitive. It's not little kids surrounded by over zealous parents who think that in order to be "competitive" in third grade they have to WORK at it now.
Little ones have been dancing since I was a little one. But this push to start team sports and competition in preschool just makes me very sad.
Out of curiosity, have any people here coached or assisted on any youth league in town? We have been involved for years, and have also been given the clear message that it's just the girls, don't take it so seriously. Hopefully there will be a change in attitude with the new person in charge.
I agree completly Bessie about the girl comment, that is one reason I really wanted to get on the commission. I do feel our girls are short changed, I know this is going to open up a can of worms but that is how I feel and there is reason for it. Boys get sponcers and nice uniforms girls get a tee shirt, boys get adult umpires and playoffs girls get kids to umpire and no playoffs.Yes I have two girls and I did coach both of them in softball,soccer and basketball. As stated above I'm totally for the kids and feel our recreation programs and sports should be what they would benifit the most from, with that being said I feel that no child regardless of their ability should be left out and not play just to have a winning record or season. This is why when I coached my kids played all the different positions and not just where I thought they were the best so we could just win.
BZMOM, what sport were you enrolling for. I thought the people that signed the kids up were volunteers, time to renegotiate our contract. What sport do you coach? Maybe we know each other, LOL.
Totally agree with Tigerfan. I don't see the issue with developing our kids to be well rounded young people. It may be in sports, dance, music etc, but all of it is beneficial to the kids. For some reason, althetics gets a bad name, but as long as academics can be balanced, althletics teach more than just "how to play". It teaches kids how to be part of a team, how to be humble, how to win or lose gracefully as well as a magnitude of other skills that will help them in LIFE.
Though I don't necessarily agree that starting basketball in the first grade vs third impacts ability to make a HS team (hard work does that), there is nothing wrong with starting early if they enjoy the sport. That said, there are many other programs outside of rec that are available to you which will allow your child to play earlier (CYO, Travel, AAU).
As far as spending time with your children, I can speak from experience. My son plays travel basketball and we often travel quite far. I believe the time spent in the car to and from these events over the past few years have allowed us to develop a great relationship as we use that time to catch up and just talk about school, life, friends, etc. Also, for me, there is nothing better than having your kid look at you in the stands during the game, knowing you are there supporting them.
lol, this thread is getting kind of funny. Just MHO of course, but I don't think that people should feel like they are being attacked just because of a difference of opinion.
Remeber, some kids will pick up skills at an early age. Some won't. It's been that way since the beginning of time and will continue till the world ends!
From my own experiences with the town rec programs, I don't think it's the starting age that makes our kids less competitive. IMHO it's the lack of coaching experience of many of the well intentioned volunteer coaches. The youth programs should do only two things: teach the fundamentals of the sport and allow the kids to have fun doing it. The repeated failures I've seen have been when a coach concentrates too much on winning at the youth level and not enough on the teaching or having fun part.
My philosophy for youth instructional sports revolves around the following:
- All kids must play, and play as much as possible. Playing only the good players at the instructional level is ridiculous because the point is to teach and for the kids to have fun. How can any kid learn if they don't play enough? Likewise, how many teams have you seen where the coaches kid plays a majority of the time? As soon as I see that I know what kind of coach we have.
- The basics *must* be stressed, over and over again, until the kids get it. The best teams are the ones in which the coach taught the basics. All teams should be successful in this area.
- The teams should have a lot of coach involvement *during* the games. Allow the coaches onto the field and/or to call timeouts whenever reinforcement is required.
Of course the philosophy changes as the kids get older, but at the instructional level the above is extremely important. Yet I find that many volunteer coaches don't understand the responsibility of coaching at this level and discourage kids that may be late bloomers. I agree with the above recommendation to have some sort of coach orientation/training that explicitly spells out what is expected at each level of play.
BTW, I hope that some here don't really find the suggestion to teach their own kids the basics to be an outrageous suggestion. After all, your child's success in life depends very much on how much time and effort you invest in them. It is your responsibility after all, not the towns. Just sayin'.
I agree with earnhardt. The girls definately have not had the same opportunities as the boys rec programs. I would love to see the program change to level the playing field and paying a larger fee is fine with me. Most towns around us charge a lot more for their rec programs and have twice as many kids sign up.
I think most of know why kids sports has the reputations they do, go to just about any kids game and see the crazy parents, you know who they are. The ones screaming at their kid, other peoples kids, their coach, the other coach, it's gotten pretty ugly out there. I hope none of the posters are those parents, but I'm sure we've all encountered them. I'm just saying that's my observation. You only have to read the papers to see it's a big problem.
Ok - to comment on my post, it was regarding starting them so young and complaining that without a structured rec program they wouldn't get out. My comment was to the comment made (that I can't find to quote right now) that without these programs kids sit in front of couches eating and playing video games. My son is involved in sports and I love that he is. However, I have to say, that it concerns me about the idea of making it more competitive. I like the rec program. I agree that it needs some updating and that is why my husband and I have decided to start going to the public meetings. (By the way, I emailed the new rec director yesterday and she got back to me right away and was very polite and pleasant) Anyway, I like the idea that all kids can participate regardless of ability. My son loves playing sports. He isn't naturally talented but you will never meet a player that works harder or has more heart. If the programs get more competitive and they start having tryouts, I fear that he wouldn't get to play.
As far as playing in High School, I'm not sure how it works here in Hackettstown, but in other towns High School is when you get to try different sports that you never did before. My friend at work, for example has a son and he never played football until 6th grade. He worked hard and now he goes to Morris Catholic and plays not only on the freshman team but is also a starter on the JV team and he trains with Varsity. This same kid never tried wresting in his life, signed up to be on the wresting team his freshman year, and is doing great. I remember the same things when I went to Morris Knolls. There were people who never even tried football, but signed up for freshman football, played in HS and got scholorships to colleges for football.
My point is this - just because someone hasn't done a sport since they were in kindergarten doesn't mean they can't be good at it. And I think that is a point that the coaches in this town have to understand as well, so they don't keep benching those kids who never played before or only played one year before.
Maybe we need to start recruiting "better" families to the area. A sarcastic remark meant to be funny MB. I certainly hope everyone that is complaining realises that rec sports are coached by parents/people that have willingly given up their personal time to work with the youth of the community.
Did I mention you personally? Looks like I hit a nerve. One would think so the way you HAD TO YELL TO DEFEND YOURSELF.
And BOO-YA? Did you really say that? *rolls eyes*
While we're at it, it looks like you were too BZ to hit spellcheck...
As a parent from Liberty Twp as well as a coach of youth sports and a past member of our recreation commission (which compared to Hackettstown we are small in numbers) Our basketball program for 1st & 2nd graders is a clinic, which teaches the fundimentals of the sport. Liberty Twp Rec has prided themselves as being fair to all kids no matter what ability they have that is why the League we participate in requires equal playing time for all. If this rule is not followed by the coach then they forfiet the game.
In my opinon a recreation program is just that a recreation program were the children are taught the BASIC SKILLS, have fun & all get to play. Each child develops their skills at a different rate, the child who may not have been able to throw or catch a ball by third grade, is now by 5th grade able to throw & catch better than or equal to the best player that was in 3rd grade.
Rec coaches need to be trained to develop the skills of their players.
This post is laughable. Competition is now an evil word in society. God forbid kids are competitive. With everyone talking about the kids being in the back yard, take a second and watch the kids playing in the backyard and guess what is going on. They are competitive by nature. Disappointed absolutely has a valid point insuch that our town does not come close to what our neighboring towns are offering in terms of structured recreation programs. As a taxpayer, I know that our taxes have no trouble setting the bar. What is wrong with Hackettstown setting the standard. Absolutely nothing. Based on the taxes that the parents pay, the children deserve nothing less. As far as the posters bashing kids competing and striving to be better, I fully support anything structured that teaches them exactly that. These are the skills that they will take forward into adulthood to become successful adults. It's OK to teach are kids to win, it's ok to to teach them to try to be the best, whether on the sports field or in the classroom. If not Kindergarten then when is it acceptable. Who sets that standard? If you feel that it is too young then don't sign up, keep your kid in the backyard. When our kids meet on the field, I know who will score. I'd also bet who gets the job when the time comes
YUP LORI......your right you did strike a nerve because I am a hands on parent. Have friends around me that also are. So please forgive me for getting all uppity. It is a tender subject because I see the same thing you do but I work very hard at being an involved parent. Yes.... I am proud to say that I am tooooo bz with my 9yr. olds to spell check....and LOVING EVERY MINUTE OF IT! OH BY THE WAY NOT YELLING....just making a point! ;)
As far a dance not being competitive. I beg to differ. I have been in that atmosphere and it's scary!!! I thank God I have a girl that likes other sports!
Yes Firefly you are so right...they do volunteer precious time and I am sure to thank them daily!
I must say, absolutely do we need changes to the recreation program in this town. Girls softball is ages 8 to12 years old...first of all..it is unsafe..and the coaches stick the older kids in and the younger ones are left out in the field picking grass. And besides that, there is a big difference between an 8 year old to a 12 year olds language and maturity.
I also agree with Tigerfan....being on a team and learning, discipline, rules of the sport helps develop our children for what is a head of them in life.
Absolutely, they should have fun while playing any sport...but again, I agree, there is nothing wrong with a little friendly competition. Again, prepares them for what is a head in life.
As for the other towns, they do start earlier..but they teach the kids from the get go..how to play correctly...not okay...one year..we play this way..okay..now the next year..we have different rules etc...so that is what our surrounding towns have over us.
Again...I am looking forward for change in our programs for our children....it's about time
disappointedX2: the issue for me is NOT about sports being competitive. I had three kids who were student/athletes at a very competitive level.
The issue for me is when it became appropriate for 5 year olds to be in competition. Because that, for me, is just silly and unnecessary. Where does it end?
Once kids start in kindergarten sports, will they then have to start at age 3 so they're not behind when they reach the kindergarten level?
There are some things that are just developmentally inappropriate for kids to be doing.
disappointed x2, laughable is correct. But you fail to miss the point because you are too concerned about what YOU want. If YOU want YOUR kids to be competitive at an earlier age who is stopping you? Who is stopping you from organizing your own team? Who is stopping you from teaching your kids to be ruthless competitors at age 6? Who is preventing you from attending the rec commission meetings and voicing your concern.
This is but another thread in which someone wants the local government to do something for them instead of doing it themselves. The TSA and Soccer associations were mentioned earlier as models for what it is you are asking. Why not start one for basketball? I'm sure you'll find like minded parents willing to outsource teaching their young kids - kids who most likely won't know that they are in a "competitive" sports program. They will only know that they are having fun. Yes, this post is indeed laughable.
The rec. committee meets the first and third monday of the month at 7:45 at the comunity center, please come out and voice your thoughts in person. (Earnhardt).
The bottom line is we need change. Shall we all appear the next rec meeting? will our voice and opinions be heard???? I have my doubts, but I will be in the next meeting and will report back to the forum.
On a side note: we asked the new rec director a few questions at BBall signups - she actually turned around to some one and stated "why is he/she asking so many questions".?... rather obnoxious and rude. I know we don't pay her to be nice, touchy feely, but I wish Earnhardt got the job! he seems to know what we need to fix the rec program - a rec dept thats old, antiquated and broken.
I don't think disappointed said lets have a rec program for 5 year olds and have playoffs and a championship game. I think what she meant was let's have a clinic like liberty does(jp that is a great idea) so that when the little guys are in third grade and ready to play they have the basic skills to play. What do you think it does to a third grader self esteem when you only practice four times, then have a game against someone who has already been playing for two years plus practices two or three times a week. It crushes them because I have seen it first hand. So a kid that might not be a great player at grade three who might have blossomed into a stud decides to quit because he not only was never taught the basics due to lack of practice time not coaching. Also the dance thing not being competitive get real. I have seen parents at dance competitions and pageants who are off the wall. Oh by the way kids are competitive in nature, no one likes to lose in anything. BZ Mom of twins, I also agree with you the new rec director is not very nice when you sign up but I think she might start being nice cause she is reading this first hand.Right Hopeful!!!!!!!!!!!
My last post should read, So a kid that might not be a great player at third grade who might have blossomed into a stud decides not to play because he was embarassed(no one likes to be embarassed) by the other team due to them starting earlier and having more practice time. No coach not even Bobby Knight is able to teach new players the basics in four practices, which that's all Hackettstown kids get , so what would a clinic hurt.
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